Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:47:02 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:47:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail01.iprimus.com.au (mail01.iprimus.com.au [203.134.64.91]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 01:44:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by mail01.iprimus.com.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:44:32 +1000 Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu ([136.142.185.20]) by mail01.iprimus.com.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.387.38); Sat, 1 Apr 2000 09:09:16 +1000 Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:12:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.nucleus.com (mail.nucleus.com [207.34.93.23]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:12:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from nis949529625 (unverified [209.115.165.75]) by mail.nucleus.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.2.181) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:12:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001801bf9b5e$2b309ae0$4ba573d1@nis949529625> From: "Lana Berrington" To: References: <003201bf9b28$d20e1a80$5f8ccfd8@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: W-EMED Glutose Paste vs. Glucose Tablets Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:12:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF9B23.7E8E9F60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Disposition-Notification-To: "Lana Berrington" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF9B23.7E8E9F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While I agree that cleaning glucose paste is a terrible thing to = scrape from everything in your pack. The tablets have their = disadvantages too.. =20 I've carried the tablets and found that they're just not terribly = durable in a pack that gets banged around a lot. =20 =20 What happened is.. over the course of a season in my kit, the tablets = became chunks and sugar particles that settled to the bottom of my pack = .. then my pack got wet.. the sugar kinda hardened in place. In personal use .. I've also found that giving tablets to somebody = with an altered level of consciousness due to hypoglycemia presents a = higher danger of having them choke on the tablets. I'm pretty sure they = were built for a person to keep with them and then to pop when they = started feeling themselves get a little low.=20 The only other thing that I don't like about the tablets is that = they're hard to chew and, sortta like a sugar cube versus a teaspoon of = sugar - the cube taking longer to disolve in your coffee - I suspect = that the tablets take a little longer to disolve and get to your = patient. The Gel: I've found gel that comes in two kinds of packets. the = little plastic tubes (that look like cake-mate icing) - these tend to be = more durable than the other kind - that comes in the foil packets.. = The foil packets I've found are often cheaper .. so for packing = purposes, I put some foil packets in a heavy duty ziplock and then duct = tape the ziplock shut and all the ziplock seams.. that way you can = still see the expiry date, and it's a pretty bomb-proof. just my two cents. (in Canadian funds.. which I think makes it more = like 1.2 cents USD) Lana ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michelle Schonzeit=20 To: W-MED list=20 Sent: March 31, 2000 8:50 AM Subject: W-EMED Glutose Paste vs. Glucose Tablets After having the wonderful pleasure of cleaning glucose gel from = everything in my ski patrol pack, I started looking for a slightly more = rugged alternative to keep in my pack for treating ill diabetics. Our = local EMT supplies store only carries the glucose paste, however, I = found Wal-mart carried glucose tablets. Both have the main ingredient listed as dextrose, and other than = you'd have to give 4 tablets to equal the one dose of paste, they seem = comparable.=20 Does anyone know of any major disadvantage to using the tablets? I = can't find any problem, but it seems to me that if they were equal, the = tablets would be more popular in SAR and ski patrolling, since they = can't freeze, rupture, or create a sticky mess! However, I can't find = anyone using them, and all of the ski patrol and SAR supply catalogs = seem to exclusively sell the paste. Does anyone have any insight as to the pros and cons of either the = tablets or paste?=20 =20 Thanks, =20 Michelle Schonzeit schonzeit@slic.com SAR of the Northern Adirondacks - Whiteface Mt. Ski Patrol http://www.angelfire.com/mt/schonzeit =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF9B23.7E8E9F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  While I agree that cleaning glucose paste is = a terrible=20 thing to scrape from everything in your pack.  The tablets have = their=20 disadvantages too..  
 
   I've carried the tablets and found that = they're=20 just not terribly durable in a pack that gets banged around a lot.  =
 
   What happened is.. over the course of a = season in=20 my kit, the tablets became chunks and sugar particles that settled to = the bottom=20 of my pack .. then my pack got wet.. the sugar kinda hardened in=20 place.
 
   In personal use .. I've also found that = giving=20 tablets to somebody with an altered level of consciousness due to = hypoglycemia=20 presents a higher danger of having them choke on the tablets.  I'm = pretty=20 sure they were built for a person to keep with them and then to pop when = they=20 started feeling themselves get a little low.
 
   The only other thing that I don't like = about the=20 tablets is that they're hard to chew and, sortta like a sugar cube = versus a=20 teaspoon of sugar - the cube taking longer to disolve in your = coffee  =20 -   I suspect that the tablets take a little longer to disolve = and get=20 to your patient.
 
 
The Gel:   I've found gel that comes in = two kinds of=20 packets.  the little plastic tubes (that look like cake-mate icing) = - these=20 tend to be more durable than the other kind - that comes in the foil=20 packets..    The foil packets I've found are often = cheaper .. so=20 for packing purposes, I put some foil packets in a heavy duty ziplock = and then=20 duct tape the ziplock shut and all the ziplock seams..   that = way you=20 can still see the expiry date, and it's a pretty = bomb-proof.
 
just my two cents. (in Canadian funds..  = which I=20 think makes it more like 1.2 cents USD)
 
Lana
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Michelle=20 Schonzeit
To: W-MED list =
Sent: March 31, 2000 8:50 = AM
Subject: W-EMED Glutose Paste = vs. Glucose=20 Tablets

    After having the wonderful = pleasure of=20 cleaning glucose gel from everything in my ski patrol pack, I started = looking=20 for a slightly more rugged alternative to keep in my pack for treating = ill=20 diabetics. Our local EMT supplies store only carries the glucose=20 paste, however, I found Wal-mart carried glucose = tablets.
    Both have the main = ingredient listed=20 as dextrose, and other than you'd have to give 4 tablets to equal the = one dose=20 of paste, they seem comparable.
    Does anyone know of any = major=20 disadvantage to using the tablets? I can't find any problem, but = it seems=20 to me that if they were equal, the tablets would be more popular=20 in SAR and ski patrolling, since they can't freeze, = rupture, or=20 create a sticky mess! However, I can't find anyone using them, = and all of=20 the ski patrol and SAR supply catalogs seem to exclusively sell = the=20 paste.
    Does anyone have any insight as = to the=20 pros and cons of either the tablets or paste?
 
Thanks,
 
Michelle Schonzeit schonzeit@slic.com
SAR of the Northern Adirondacks - Whiteface Mt. = Ski=20 Patrol
http://www.angelfire.com/m= t/schonzeit=20   
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF9B23.7E8E9F60-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:15:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:15:06 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:15:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:14:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:12:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.nucleus.com (mail.nucleus.com [207.34.93.23]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:12:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from nis949529625 (unverified [209.115.165.75]) by mail.nucleus.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.2.181) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:12:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001801bf9b5e$2b309ae0$4ba573d1@nis949529625> From: "Lana Berrington" To: References: <003201bf9b28$d20e1a80$5f8ccfd8@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: W-EMED Glutose Paste vs. Glucose Tablets Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:12:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF9B23.7E8E9F60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 Disposition-Notification-To: "Lana Berrington" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF9B23.7E8E9F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While I agree that cleaning glucose paste is a terrible thing to = scrape from everything in your pack. The tablets have their = disadvantages too.. =20 I've carried the tablets and found that they're just not terribly = durable in a pack that gets banged around a lot. =20 =20 What happened is.. over the course of a season in my kit, the tablets = became chunks and sugar particles that settled to the bottom of my pack = .. then my pack got wet.. the sugar kinda hardened in place. In personal use .. I've also found that giving tablets to somebody = with an altered level of consciousness due to hypoglycemia presents a = higher danger of having them choke on the tablets. I'm pretty sure they = were built for a person to keep with them and then to pop when they = started feeling themselves get a little low.=20 The only other thing that I don't like about the tablets is that = they're hard to chew and, sortta like a sugar cube versus a teaspoon of = sugar - the cube taking longer to disolve in your coffee - I suspect = that the tablets take a little longer to disolve and get to your = patient. The Gel: I've found gel that comes in two kinds of packets. the = little plastic tubes (that look like cake-mate icing) - these tend to be = more durable than the other kind - that comes in the foil packets.. = The foil packets I've found are often cheaper .. so for packing = purposes, I put some foil packets in a heavy duty ziplock and then duct = tape the ziplock shut and all the ziplock seams.. that way you can = still see the expiry date, and it's a pretty bomb-proof. just my two cents. (in Canadian funds.. which I think makes it more = like 1.2 cents USD) Lana ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Michelle Schonzeit=20 To: W-MED list=20 Sent: March 31, 2000 8:50 AM Subject: W-EMED Glutose Paste vs. Glucose Tablets After having the wonderful pleasure of cleaning glucose gel from = everything in my ski patrol pack, I started looking for a slightly more = rugged alternative to keep in my pack for treating ill diabetics. Our = local EMT supplies store only carries the glucose paste, however, I = found Wal-mart carried glucose tablets. Both have the main ingredient listed as dextrose, and other than = you'd have to give 4 tablets to equal the one dose of paste, they seem = comparable.=20 Does anyone know of any major disadvantage to using the tablets? I = can't find any problem, but it seems to me that if they were equal, the = tablets would be more popular in SAR and ski patrolling, since they = can't freeze, rupture, or create a sticky mess! However, I can't find = anyone using them, and all of the ski patrol and SAR supply catalogs = seem to exclusively sell the paste. Does anyone have any insight as to the pros and cons of either the = tablets or paste?=20 =20 Thanks, =20 Michelle Schonzeit schonzeit@slic.com SAR of the Northern Adirondacks - Whiteface Mt. Ski Patrol http://www.angelfire.com/mt/schonzeit =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF9B23.7E8E9F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  While I agree that cleaning glucose paste is = a terrible=20 thing to scrape from everything in your pack.  The tablets have = their=20 disadvantages too..  
 
   I've carried the tablets and found that = they're=20 just not terribly durable in a pack that gets banged around a lot.  =
 
   What happened is.. over the course of a = season in=20 my kit, the tablets became chunks and sugar particles that settled to = the bottom=20 of my pack .. then my pack got wet.. the sugar kinda hardened in=20 place.
 
   In personal use .. I've also found that = giving=20 tablets to somebody with an altered level of consciousness due to = hypoglycemia=20 presents a higher danger of having them choke on the tablets.  I'm = pretty=20 sure they were built for a person to keep with them and then to pop when = they=20 started feeling themselves get a little low.
 
   The only other thing that I don't like = about the=20 tablets is that they're hard to chew and, sortta like a sugar cube = versus a=20 teaspoon of sugar - the cube taking longer to disolve in your = coffee  =20 -   I suspect that the tablets take a little longer to disolve = and get=20 to your patient.
 
 
The Gel:   I've found gel that comes in = two kinds of=20 packets.  the little plastic tubes (that look like cake-mate icing) = - these=20 tend to be more durable than the other kind - that comes in the foil=20 packets..    The foil packets I've found are often = cheaper .. so=20 for packing purposes, I put some foil packets in a heavy duty ziplock = and then=20 duct tape the ziplock shut and all the ziplock seams..   that = way you=20 can still see the expiry date, and it's a pretty = bomb-proof.
 
just my two cents. (in Canadian funds..  = which I=20 think makes it more like 1.2 cents USD)
 
Lana
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Michelle=20 Schonzeit
To: W-MED list =
Sent: March 31, 2000 8:50 = AM
Subject: W-EMED Glutose Paste = vs. Glucose=20 Tablets

    After having the wonderful = pleasure of=20 cleaning glucose gel from everything in my ski patrol pack, I started = looking=20 for a slightly more rugged alternative to keep in my pack for treating = ill=20 diabetics. Our local EMT supplies store only carries the glucose=20 paste, however, I found Wal-mart carried glucose = tablets.
    Both have the main = ingredient listed=20 as dextrose, and other than you'd have to give 4 tablets to equal the = one dose=20 of paste, they seem comparable.
    Does anyone know of any = major=20 disadvantage to using the tablets? I can't find any problem, but = it seems=20 to me that if they were equal, the tablets would be more popular=20 in SAR and ski patrolling, since they can't freeze, = rupture, or=20 create a sticky mess! However, I can't find anyone using them, = and all of=20 the ski patrol and SAR supply catalogs seem to exclusively sell = the=20 paste.
    Does anyone have any insight as = to the=20 pros and cons of either the tablets or paste?
 
Thanks,
 
Michelle Schonzeit schonzeit@slic.com
SAR of the Northern Adirondacks - Whiteface Mt. = Ski=20 Patrol
http://www.angelfire.com/m= t/schonzeit=20   
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF9B23.7E8E9F60-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:45:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:44:58 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:44:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:43:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:41:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from buzz.slic.com (qmailr@eagle.slic.com [216.73.13.5]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:41:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 13073 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2000 15:49:12 -0000 Received: from saratoga-async95.slic.com (HELO oemcomputer) (216.207.140.95) by eagle.slic.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2000 15:49:12 -0000 Message-ID: <003201bf9b28$d20e1a80$5f8ccfd8@oemcomputer> From: "Michelle Schonzeit" To: "W-MED list" Subject: W-EMED Glutose Paste vs. Glucose Tablets Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:50:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF9AFE.E5C7A3E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF9AFE.E5C7A3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After having the wonderful pleasure of cleaning glucose gel from = everything in my ski patrol pack, I started looking for a slightly more = rugged alternative to keep in my pack for treating ill diabetics. Our = local EMT supplies store only carries the glucose paste, however, I = found Wal-mart carried glucose tablets. Both have the main ingredient listed as dextrose, and other than = you'd have to give 4 tablets to equal the one dose of paste, they seem = comparable.=20 Does anyone know of any major disadvantage to using the tablets? I = can't find any problem, but it seems to me that if they were equal, the = tablets would be more popular in SAR and ski patrolling, since they = can't freeze, rupture, or create a sticky mess! However, I can't find = anyone using them, and all of the ski patrol and SAR supply catalogs = seem to exclusively sell the paste. Does anyone have any insight as to the pros and cons of either the = tablets or paste?=20 Thanks, Michelle Schonzeit schonzeit@slic.com SAR of the Northern Adirondacks - Whiteface Mt. Ski Patrol http://www.angelfire.com/mt/schonzeit =20 ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF9AFE.E5C7A3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    After having the wonderful = pleasure of=20 cleaning glucose gel from everything in my ski patrol pack, I started = looking=20 for a slightly more rugged alternative to keep in my pack for treating = ill=20 diabetics. Our local EMT supplies store only carries the glucose=20 paste, however, I found Wal-mart carried glucose = tablets.
    Both have the main = ingredient listed=20 as dextrose, and other than you'd have to give 4 tablets to equal the = one dose=20 of paste, they seem comparable.
    Does anyone know of any = major=20 disadvantage to using the tablets? I can't find any problem, but it = seems=20 to me that if they were equal, the tablets would be more popular=20 in SAR and ski patrolling, since they can't freeze, = rupture, or=20 create a sticky mess! However, I can't find anyone using them, and = all of=20 the ski patrol and SAR supply catalogs seem to exclusively sell the = paste.
    Does anyone have any insight as = to the pros=20 and cons of either the tablets or paste?
 
Thanks,
 
Michelle Schonzeit schonzeit@slic.com
SAR of the Northern Adirondacks - Whiteface Mt. Ski=20 Patrol
http://www.angelfire.com/m= t/schonzeit=20   
------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF9AFE.E5C7A3E0-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:58:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:57:11 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:57:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:47:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:47:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.67]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:47:35 -0500 (EST) From: JadedMedic@aol.com Received: from JadedMedic@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.5a.31e1d23 (9650) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:46:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5a.31e1d23.2613d3d1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:46:57 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED Current recommendations for oral fluids in hypovolemic shock? To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > This is not to say that dehydrated patients can't be treated with oral > rehydration. This is done regularly with cholera victims, but oral > rehydration > should be reserved for mild to at most moderate dehydration, not patients in > shock. > > Roy Alson, PhD, MD Hi, First of all, thank you very much for your considered reply. It is genuinely appreciated. Please allow me to fine-tune my question by citing what is admittedly a somewhat contrived example. OK, consider the following: Let's say that you're in a situation where it is physically impossible to get a victim to any sort of more advanced care for at least 24 hours. (Maybe you're way out in the woods, maybe you're in a disaster situation, maybe you're out on a small boat at sea, whatever.) Anyway, IV fluid therapy is not an option, so oral fluid therapy is the only way you could get fluid into someone, should you choose to go that route. (We'll set aside, at least for now, the "retention enema" strategy so widely advocated back in the cold war/civil defense/fallout shelter days -- although maybe that deserves a closer look later on. If memory serves, I heard a report of British troops using that technique to apparently good effect on trauma victims during the Falklands war.) Let's further say that you have a patient whose problem is hypovolemic shock due to blood loss from, say, a bad wound on their arm that bled a _lot_ before the bleeding was finally controlled by direct pressure. OK, so you know for certain that you've got a patient who is in hypovolemic shock due to blood loss from an isolated wound on their arm. You know for certain that this patient has no head injury and/or abdominal injury, and is not nauseated, vomiting, having seizures, etc., and is currently "more or less" conscious. In such a situation, is there any plausible rationale for giving oral fluids? If so, what would be an acceptable maximum rate? (To keep it simple, let's assume that we're talking about giving saline.) I know that such patients certainly shouldn't be handed a liter of saline and told to chug it down. Even those who recommend oral fluid therapy advocate the "frequent small sip" approach. Red Cross is currently recommending, in at least one of their texts, oral fluid therapy at a rate of four ounces every twenty minutes. (Even assuming the fluid goes in without problems, is that rate enough to do a seriously hypovolemic patient any good?) So, given such a patient, what should we do...really? And on what basis do we know...really...that this is what we should do? These patients are hypoperfusing to a genuinely dangerous degree due to blood loss, and if that condition persists too severely for too long they will never recover -- and there is _no_ way to get them to advanced care in less than 24 hours. In such an admittedly dire and rare situation, do we really, honest-to-God, nonetheless never attempt any sort of oral fluid therapy? If so, what evidence supports this position? I gotta tell you, in the situation described, I suspect that I'd feel pretty strongly tempted to try to get some saline into that patient. Regards to all, Jay (who is wondering if any of the recommendations, pro or con, actually have any solid evidence to back them up) Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:15:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:11:40 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:11:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:44:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:43:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from inago.swcp.com (inago.swcp.com [198.59.115.17]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:43:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (tanman@localhost) by inago.swcp.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA15959 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:43:01 -0700 (MST) X-Authentication-Warning: inago.swcp.com: tanman owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:43:01 -0700 (MST) From: TANMAN To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED Fluids in dehydration In-Reply-To: <38E227D4.10516.F792E42@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu When working in Asia in the rural jungle in a typhoid epidemic and also working with dysenteries of numerous sorts, We found that giving fluids rectally worked very well in most cases. In the rural areas, IVs and other high tech equiptment may not be available. As I recall, one of our Presidents that was very sick was kept alive by rectal fluids for 90 days or something such as that. Thomas A. Naegele, DO Internet 9405 Lagrima de Oro NE 505-275-7267 Albuquerque, NM 87111 Board Certified Family Practice/Board Certified Quality Assurance MEDICAL WHITE PAPERS MAGAZINE FOR COMMUNITY PHYSICIANS http://www.swcp.com/~tanman/ FOR HUB Information Call MIKE at 303-220-1073 __________________________________________________________________ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:01:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:37 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:58:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from micron (ehdup-u-47.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.23.157]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:13 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: JadedMedic@aol.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: W-EMED Current recommendations for oral fluids in hypovolemic shock? Message-ID: <38E227D3.28605.F792DCF@localhost> In-reply-to: <24.2eefdcb.26139173@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu id PAA10704 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu On 29 Mar 2000, at 12:03, JadedMedic@aol.com wrote: > I'm wondering what the position is (this week, anyway [grin]), on > giving hypovolemic shock patients fluids by mouth. Dunno about this week, but here's something I published in 1991 (and will probably republish in the SAR/WEMT literature this year) that may be of use. Oral Fluids and Cave Rescue* by Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP† November 14, 1991 Disclaimer Recommendations for medical treatment in this article are presented for training purposes only. I have attempted to ensure that all recommendations are consistent with current medical practices, but all care provided by cave rescuers should be by the order of a physician. Your physician medical director must set protocols and standing orders, and you must follow them, even if they conflict with the recommendations in this article. Oral Fluids in Cave Rescue The Oral Route The standard rule for patients "on the street" is that you never give fluids. There are good reasons for this: you might make the patient more likely to vomit and aspirate (get vomit into the lungs). Even if the patient doesn't vomit in the ambulance, the patient may need surgery, and general anaesthesia with food or fluid in the stomach makes it likely for stomach fluid to regurgitate into the lungs, causing severe lung problems. However, wilderness patients can use the oral route for medication, food, and water, but only under certain conditions. First, the GI system must be working. If the patient has an ileus, nothing you give by mouth will be absorbed. What is worse, it will sit in the patient's stomach until the patient vomits it back up. At the best this is unpleasant for everyone, and at the worst, the patient aspirates into the lungs and dies. After any trauma, it is common for the intestines to go "on strike." In medical terms, this is an ileus. When a patient has an ileus (the most common grammatical way to use the term), the contents of the stomach and intestines stay where they are, rather than moving gradually from the beginning to the end, as is the usual case. The coordinated peristaltic movements of the GI tract stop, or are replaced by ineffective spasms. You cannot feed a patient with an ileus. If you give the patient something to eat or drink, it will sit in the patient's stomach until he or she vomits. Even if you don't let the patient eat, gas created by normal bacterial action on the contents of the GI tract tends to cause bloating and vomiting. The standard treatment for those with an ileus, therefore, is to place a nasogastric (NG) tube to allow gas and stomach secretions to drain out without making the patient vomit. Clues to a patient with an ileus include: (a) the patient is not hungry, and may be nauseated; (b) bowel sounds in the abdomen are absent or markedly decreased; and (c) the patient is not having bowel movements and is not passing gas per rectum.‡ Second, the patient must be alert enough able to eat or drink without aspirating. People often say, "The patient must have an intact gag reflex." But, about 30% of normals don't gag, ever, and these people don't spend their life aspirating everything they eat or drink. We just want someone alert enough to have an intact swallowing mechanism.* Third, don't give oral fluids to someone who is probably going to go to the operating room in the next 6-8 hours. This would include open or severe fractures, abdominal injuries, or severe abdominal pain. Why? Because of the possibility of aspiration as the patient is being put under anaesthesia. If you're more than 6-8 hours from the operating room, however, you may be able to give fluids up until about 6 hours before the patient is likely to reach the hospital. If you're going to start your patient on oral fluids, start with small sips of clear fluids. Don't let the patient take large amounts, no matter how thirsty. If the small sips stay down, then gradually give larger amounts. [continued next message) --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:01:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:31 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:58:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from micron (ehdup-u-47.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.23.157]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: JadedMedic@aol.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: W-EMED Current recommendations for oral fluids in hypovolemic shock? Part 4 Message-ID: <38E227D4.30324.F792EAB@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu id PAA10737 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu References 1.Keys, A., The biology of human starvation. 1950, Minneapolis: Univ. of Minn. Press. 2.Young, V.R. and N.S. Scrimshaw, The physiology of starvation. Sci Am. Vol. 225. 1971. 3.Scrimshaw, N.S., Undernutrition, starvation, and hunger edema, in Textbook of Medicine, P.B. Beeson and W. McDermott, Editors. 1975, Saunders: Philadelphia. p. 1367-1368. 4.Moore, F.D., Homeostasis: bodily changes in trauma and surgery, in Davis-Christopher textbook of surgery, D.C. Sabiston, Editor. 1981, W. B. Saunders: Philadelphia. p. 23-57. 5.Shires, G.T. and P.C. Canizaro, Fluid and electrolyte management of the surgical patient, in Davis-Christopher textbook of surgery, D.C. Sabiston, Editor. 1981, W. B. Saunders: Philadelphia. p. 91- 114. * This article is adapted from materials prepared by the ASRC-CEM Wilderness Emergency Medicine Curriculum Development Project, (r) 1991, with permission. The Appalachian Search and Rescue Conference and Center for Emergency Medicine of Western Pennsylvania are cooperating to develop a detailed, definitive curriculum for Wilderness EMT training. A textbook based on this material should appear in the future. The Task Group reviewing this material included Sherwood Chetlin, M.D.; Keith Conover, M.D.; Eric Davis, M.D.; William W. Forgey, M.D.; Lorick Fox, Jr.; Stephen A. Gates, M.D.; Murray Gordon, M.D.; Fred Harchelroad, Jr., M.D.; John R. Kihl, R.N.; Michael S. Kuga, EMT; Robert Lasek, M.D.; William Mackreth, EMT-P; Charles Stewart, M.D.; David Thomson, M.D.; Ray Townsend, M.D.; Ricardo Townsend, M.D.; and James A. Wilkerson, M.D. † Rescue certified member and past Chair, Appalachian Region, Mountain Rescue Association; Medical Advisor and Instructor, Eastern Region, National Cave Rescue Commission; Pennsylvania Medical Director, Appalachian Search and Rescue Conference; Clinical Assistant Professor, Department of Emergency Medicine, University of Pittsburgh.. ‡ Farting. * It's theoretically possible for someone to have a stroke that damages the swallowing mechanism and leaves a patient alert, but the chances of your rescuing such a patient in the wilderness is negligible. † Thus, for a 40 kilo child, this would be: 100cc/kg/day x 10 kilos = 1000cc/day, plus 50cc/kg/day x 10 kilos = 500cc/day, plus 20cc/kg/day x 20 kilos = 400cc/day, for a total of 1900cc/day. ‡ Except possibly some potassium imbalances by seeing certain changes on an EKG. * The calorie (with a small c) is the amount of energy needed to raise one gram of water one degree Centigrade. However, when capitalized, the word Calorie means kilocalorie. Whenever dietitians are talking about calories, they always talking about Calories with a capital "C." The Calorie, also known as the kilocalorie, is the amount of energy needed to raise a kilogram of water (1000 grams, or a liter) one degree Centigrade. Your basal metabolic rate is about 75 kilocalories an hour, about 3/4 of which comes from your internal organs, and 1/4 from your muscles. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:02 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:58:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from micron (ehdup-u-47.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.23.157]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: JadedMedic@aol.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: W-EMED Current recommendations for oral fluids in hypovolemic shock? Part 2 Message-ID: <38E227D3.24853.F792D61@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu id PAA10699 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Fluids The normal minimal need is about 2 liters/day for a standard-sized adult. Pediatric fluid requirements vary with weight. You can use the following formula to calculate minimal fluid needs based on weight. For the first 10 kilos, add 100cc per kilo per day; for each of the next 1- kilos, add 50cc per kilo per day; and for every kilo above 20, add 20 cc per kilo per day.† 0-l0 kg 100cc/kg/day 10-20 kg +50cc/kg/day 20+ kg +20cc/kg/day Fluid needs are significantly increased by: * fever (which increases insensible perspiration); * bleeding; * vomiting or diarrhea; * swelling in injured areas (including "third space" losses in abdomen that may not be visibly obvious); and * increased loss through damaged skin (large abrasions or burns). The best way to know that fluid replacement is adequate is to see a urine output of 50cc/hr or better. (Pediatric patients: l cc/kg/hr.) Even if a Foley catheter in the bladder, or Texas ("condom") catheter is not used, you can carefully measure the patient's urine output by having the patient urinate in a bottle and measuring the urine prior to discarding it. If you then average over a period of several hours, you should have an accurate assessment. Electrolytes We need a small amount of sodium and potassium each day. One liter of Ringer's Solution or Ringer's Lactate provides more than enough for basal needs, and just about any diet has enough to meet basal needs. As long as the amounts given aren't excessive, and the kidneys work properly, extra will be excreted. High or low values of sodium or potassium can cause heart and CNS problems, but cannot be diagnosed in the field.‡ Electrolyte losses are increased with: * sweating, which causes loss of both sodium and potassium (e.g., with varying fever, or a hot environment); * vomiting and diarrhea, which cause loss of significant amounts of both sodium and potassium; and * burns, bleeding, or third space losses, which decrease the available electrolytes. [continued in next message) --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:19 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:00:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:58:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from micron (ehdup-u-47.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.23.157]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:17 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: JadedMedic@aol.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:57:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Current recommendations for oral fluids in hypovolemic shock? Part 3 Message-ID: <38E227D4.10516.F792E42@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Caloric (energy) needs A normal adult on garrison duty needs 1700-2000 Kcal (Calories with a big C) each day.* This is increased markedly by strenuous exercise or injury up to about 4000 Calories a day. Also, fever increases basal metabolic rate about 10% per degree, and energy needs increase correspondingly. Most people have energy stores enough to last for days to weeks, even if injured. You cannot give enough through an IV in the field to make a significant difference -- a liter of D5W (5% dextrose solution) has 200 Calories, and adding two amps of D50 (50% dextrose solution) to the liter of D5W only brings it up to 400 Calories, only a tenth of the injured patient's needs). However, you should provide what little you can this way. Adding two amps of D50 to every other bag of IV fluid should be a standard treatment for long evacuations with an injured patient. If you are trying to feed a patient with severe injury or illness, and the patient can tolerate PO (oral) fluids (see above), start with clear fluids with salt and sugar (e.g., Gatorade(tm) diluted half-and-half with water) because this will be absorbed with minimal energy expenditure. Gradually move to liquids (e.g., soup) then to solid food. You can use commercial liquid feedings such as Ensure(r), which are available at drug stores, and often carried by cavers and alpine expeditions. Keep the amount of fat minimal to start, to avoid difficulty with digestion. Starvation is common among those who have been lost, and starvation causes certain biochemical abnormalities. A decrease in plasma proteins may lead to swelling of the ankles or other body parts. Starvation ketoacidosis may lead to a fruity odor on the breath similar to that in those with diabetic ketoacidosis. The ketoacidosis also leads to variable degrees of confusion and lethargy.[1, 2] "In all forms of severe under-nutrition, refeeding must be instituted slowly. Overeating was a cause of shock and death among concentration camp victims at the end of World War II."[3] Protein needs The body needs a half-gram of protein a day, and more with injury or healing. You can't give protein through I V in field, but by giving small amounts of glucose in I V (as described above), you can spare the use of some of the body's own protein. When starving, the body breaks down protein into sugar. The brain, unlike rest of body, can't use fat; so, when necessary, the body will always break protein down to make glucose for the brain.[4, 5] Conclusion Oral fluids may have a very important role in the wilderness or cave rescue patient. If the rescue and evacuation will take a long time, keeping the patient well-hydrated is essential to survival. And, if the patient is fluid depleted due to cold or heat exposure, injury, or simply being stranded, repleting the fluid losses is a vital part of emergency care. There are several situations in which you should not give oral fluids: surgery likely within the next 6 hours, internal injuries, or an ileus. However, there will likely be situations where the patient has none of these problems, you don't have an IV, or you don't have enough IV fluids to meet the patient's needs. In these cases, oral fluids may be lifesaving. [continued in next message] --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:12:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:12:16 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:12:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:24:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:23:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.wfubmc.edu (mail.wfubmc.edu [152.11.242.104]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:23:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from wfubmc.edu ([152.11.185.86]) by mail.wfubmc.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1044 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:24:49 -0500 Message-ID: <38E2597D.3FBB9ED6@wfubmc.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:29:01 -0500 From: ralson@wfubmc.edu (Dr.Roy Alson) Organization: Wake Forest University School of Medicine X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Current recommendations for oral fluids in hypovolemic shock? References: <24.2eefdcb.26139173@aol.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4FF6F8AC6852787027212F7F" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4FF6F8AC6852787027212F7F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While fluids can be given by mouth to a person who is able to swallow and protect their airway, the danger with giving large volumes of fluid by mouth to patients in "hypovolemic shock" is that as a result of their being in the shock state, flow to their intestinal tract will be diminished. This is to preserve flow to other more critical areas. Thus absorbtion of the oral fluids will be diminished and because of decreased gastric motility, there is an increased risk of aspiration. This is not to say that dehydrated patients can't be treated with oral rehydration. This is done regularly with cholera victims, but oral rehydration should be reserved for mild to at most moderate dehydration, not patients in shock. Roy Alson, PhD, MD JadedMedic@aol.com wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm wondering what the position is (this week, anyway [grin]), on giving > hypovolemic shock patients fluids by mouth. > > I've looked over a number of the current books, and some of the main books on > wilderness emergency care (Weiss, Forgey, Wilderness Medical Society) do not > specifically recommend giving fluids by mouth to someone in hypovolemic > shock. Of course, none of them specifically recommend _against_ it either. > All three seem silent on the topic. (Candidly, this seems a bit strange to > me.) > > On the other hand, the Red Cross book on "When Help Is Delayed" recommends > giving a fully conscious, and otherwise uncomplicated (no abdominal injury, > etc.), hypovolemic shock patient oral fluids at a rate of four ounces every > twenty minutes in "frequent small sips." > > Furthermore, in the (IMO excellent) book "Advanced First Aid Afloat" (fourth > edition) by Peter Eastman, MD, the reader is advised to, among other things, > give a burn shock victim as much "salty lemonade" as they will tolerate. > (I'm simplifying what he recommends a great deal here.) > > Anyhow, assuming that an IV cannot be started, what is the current > recommendation, and what evidence is it based on, regarding giving fluids by > mouth (or possibly via other routes) to a hypovolemic shock patient? > > Regards, > > Jay > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu --------------4FF6F8AC6852787027212F7F Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ralson.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Roy Alson, PhD, MD, FACEP Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ralson.vcf" begin:vcard n:Alson;Roy tel;fax:336-716-5438 tel;work:336-716-2193 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Wake Forest University School of Medicine;Department of Emergency Medicine adr:;;301 Medical Center Blvd;Winston-Salem;NC;27157-1089;US version:2.1 email;internet:ralson@wfubmc.edu title:Assistant Professor of Emergency Medicine fn:Roy L. Alson, PhD, MD, FACEP end:vcard --------------4FF6F8AC6852787027212F7F-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:08:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:08:01 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:07:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:06:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:04:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:04:29 -0500 (EST) From: JadedMedic@aol.com Received: from JadedMedic@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.24.2eefdcb (1770) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:03:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <24.2eefdcb.26139173@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:03:47 EST Subject: W-EMED Current recommendations for oral fluids in hypovolemic shock? To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Hi folks, I'm wondering what the position is (this week, anyway [grin]), on giving hypovolemic shock patients fluids by mouth. I've looked over a number of the current books, and some of the main books on wilderness emergency care (Weiss, Forgey, Wilderness Medical Society) do not specifically recommend giving fluids by mouth to someone in hypovolemic shock. Of course, none of them specifically recommend _against_ it either. All three seem silent on the topic. (Candidly, this seems a bit strange to me.) On the other hand, the Red Cross book on "When Help Is Delayed" recommends giving a fully conscious, and otherwise uncomplicated (no abdominal injury, etc.), hypovolemic shock patient oral fluids at a rate of four ounces every twenty minutes in "frequent small sips." Furthermore, in the (IMO excellent) book "Advanced First Aid Afloat" (fourth edition) by Peter Eastman, MD, the reader is advised to, among other things, give a burn shock victim as much "salty lemonade" as they will tolerate. (I'm simplifying what he recommends a great deal here.) Anyhow, assuming that an IV cannot be started, what is the current recommendation, and what evidence is it based on, regarding giving fluids by mouth (or possibly via other routes) to a hypovolemic shock patient? Regards, Jay Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:53:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:53:19 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:53:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:52:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:49:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:49:51 -0500 (EST) From: Caverbru@aol.com Received: from Caverbru@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.4b.23a8801 (4013) for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:49:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4b.23a8801.2612c928@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:49:12 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED cpr recert in wv To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 70 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Pendleton County rescue squad should be able to help you. Also check with the guy who runs CMI he is active in the local squads high angle rescue team and if you are living around there might sign you up. He helped us with a cave rescue a few years ago. Bru Randall Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:56:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:55:47 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:55:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:54:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:54:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.71]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:54:09 -0500 (EST) From: Trailblazer75@aol.com Received: from Trailblazer75@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.61.25516a6 (4313) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:53:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <61.25516a6.261178af@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:53:35 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED cpr recert in wv To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Check with your local fire departments or paramedic groups. If that fails, ask at the local hospital emerg. facility. Most of the fire depts. around here have at least one CPR instructor certified to certify others. Trailblazer75 Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:15:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:14:53 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:14:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:14:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:13:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:13:53 -0500 (EST) From: Mkeowl@aol.com Received: from Mkeowl@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.c6.31cc97b (4568) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:13:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:13:18 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED cpr recert in wv To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 66 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Just keep calling the local FDs or RSs and someone should have one soon... Linda with Rugby (WOW! Thanks for the yummy food -- HA HA! BOUS! I GET THE GOOD homemade food and YOU get the 'other' stuff... ), Chouette (Is this Sunday? "The day of REST?"...), and Uiltje (Can we go do the mountain hike again?... I've had my 3 minute rest... and my hip and shoulder will get better if I keep it moving -- sometimes...) Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:37:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:03:06 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:03:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:48:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:45:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f259.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.148.137]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:45:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 50632 invoked by uid 0); 28 Mar 2000 00:45:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20000328004509.50631.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 198.77.38.154 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:45:09 PST X-Originating-IP: [198.77.38.154] From: "Kristie Surmick" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED cpr recert in wv Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:45:09 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Howdy all, I just recertified my WFR, but still need to recert my CPR. Looking to travel not tooo far, does anyone know where I can get my cpr near Franklin WV, in Pendelton county? Or near Staunton or Harrisonburg Virginia. Thanks! kristie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:23:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:22:52 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:22:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:21:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:19:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.memlane.com (mail.memlane.com [199.185.225.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:19:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from seasar ([199.185.225.231]) by mail.memlane.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-55152U3000L300S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 18:07:50 -0700 Message-ID: <001401bf978a$6ab9b660$e7e1b9c7@seasar> From: "South East Alberta Search And Rescue" To: Subject: W-EMED Nursing Opportunities Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 18:18:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF974F.BD4E5060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF974F.BD4E5060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I am looking at a career change and was considering nursing. What = wilderness-type opportunities exist for a new, 30 year old nurse with a = BN or BScN? Any info would be great and feel free to respond directly to = seasar@memlane.com. Thanks Donovan Hoggan, R.S.W. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF974F.BD4E5060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
 
I am looking at a career change and was = considering=20 nursing.  What wilderness-type opportunities exist for a new, 30 = year old=20 nurse with a BN or BScN?
 
Any info would be great and feel free = to respond=20 directly to seasar@memlane.com.
 
Thanks
 
Donovan Hoggan, = R.S.W.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF974F.BD4E5060-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:59:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:58:35 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:58:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:55:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:55:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:55:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from micron (ehdup-t-89.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.23.99]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:54:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: JadedMedic@aol.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:54:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Re: whistle signals CC: Gene Harrison , Message-ID: <38DE40E2.13881.4B8CEC@localhost> In-reply-to: <8.2ce7fa9.260f9916@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu On 26 Mar 2000, at 11:47, JadedMedic@aol.com wrote: > Of course, this raises the question of who "we" is. I don't know who > would be the standard-setting body in this regard. Is there such a > thing as "The International Society of Search and Rescue > Associations"? A group such as that would seem a logical choice. How about: ASTM Committee F-32 on SAR standards? http://members.aol.com/mgmsar/f32home.htm I'll also cc: the guy most involved in such communication standards, who as far as I know is also a suscriber to this list. Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP (NSS 12893, WD4PSY) http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover - Information Systems Coordinator, Dept. of EM, Mercy Hospital - Clinical Assistant Professor, Dept. of Emergency Medicine, Univ. of Pittsburgh (EM Residency and Center for Emergency Medicine) - Medical Director, Wilderness EMS Institute (http://www.wemsi.org; for a WEMSI-sponsored list, send "subscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" to Majordomo@list.pitt.edu) - Eastern Region, Natl. Cave Rescue Comm./Appalachian SAR Conf. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:53:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:52:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:51:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:47:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:47:53 -0500 (EST) From: JadedMedic@aol.com Received: from JadedMedic@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.8.2ce7fa9 (3946) for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:47:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8.2ce7fa9.260f9916@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:47:18 EST Subject: W-EMED Re: whistle signals To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 100 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Hi folks, I can certainly understand that formal search-and-rescue groups would investigate any unexpected whistle blasts, no matter what their pattern. OK, so far, so good. What concerns me about this is that it may take as long as a day or so for things to reach the point where such groups are out there (and the victim may be too weak to signal much of anything by then). Many "civilians" may have heard the blasts in the interim but, because the blasts fit no widely taught distress pattern, simply discount them and continue on their way. Thus, any number of opportunities for rescue may be lost. Thus, if there were a simple, uniform, widely taught, signal distress pattern (and three whistle blasts seems as good as any), it would increase the chances that more people would realize sooner that someone was in trouble, and act accordingly. Right now, there are at least four different whistle blast signal patterns being taught as an "I need help" signal. That obviously sets the stage for confusion. It would help if "we" could simplify and standardize this. Of course, this raises the question of who "we" is. I don't know who would be the standard-setting body in this regard. Is there such a thing as "The International Society of Search and Rescue Associations"? A group such as that would seem a logical choice. Regards to all, Jay Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:18:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:17:36 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:17:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:16:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:15:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.gateway.net (relay9.gateway.net [208.230.117.248]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:15:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (1Cust199.tnt5.pittsburgh.pa.da.uu.net [63.10.65.199]) by smtp4.gateway.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA24226 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:15:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew F. Russell, M.D." To: Subject: RE: W-EMED Information on MSO and PSO courses Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:15:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <38DA7156.18858.6479D4@localhost> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu You can actually buy the Managing the Lost Person Incident Text locally at mountain Dreams International on Bower Hill orad if you want. MFR -----Original Message----- From: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu [mailto:owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu]On Behalf Of Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 7:33 PM To: Caverbru@aol.com; wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Information on MSO and PSO courses On 23 Mar 2000, at 8:27, Caverbru@aol.com wrote: > At its meeting in September 1999 the Eastern Region of the National > Cave Rescue Commission decided that there was a need for a weeklong > Level-3 course in Management of Cave Rescue (to include searches). A > brief discussion suggested that it might be prudent to take two > existing courses, combine them, and revise them, as needed, to apply > to caves. The two courses suggested are Managing the Search Operation, > MSO (formally Managing the Search Function, MSF) and Practicals of > Search Operations (PSO) developed, I believe, by Appalachian Search > and Rescue Conference (ASRC) and offered through the Virginia Ground > Search and Rescue School. Managing the Search Function (MSF) has, I believe, been updated and renamed as Managing the Lost Person Incident. The course is offered by NASAR and at one time, they refused to sell the text unless you took a course -- this may have changed. http://www.nasar.org/ An equivalent course, Managing Search Operations, is offered by Emergency Response Institute, and they definitely do sell the text. The web site is, I hear, out of date, but give it a try; and if not able to order it there, contact one of the principals, email address below: http://www.eri-intl.com/ "Skip Stoffel" "Rick LaValla" There is also a recent message from them about a new course, on the sar-l list, which I will forward to you and the list. The Practical Search Operations Course, an ideal follow-on course after MLPI or MSO, is offered by Search and Rescue Training Associates, which does the course on contract for the Commonwealth of Virginia as well as for the Appalachian Search and Rescue Conference and more recently the Pennsylvania SAR Council. Contact: David Carter or Commonwealth of Virginia SAR Coordinator: Winnie Pennington Bob Koester has a similar but shorter course, called Search Operations for Staff. http://www.people.Virginia.EDU/~rjk5a/sar.htm Hope this helps. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:35:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:34:27 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:34:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:33:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:32:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from micron (ehdup-v-1.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.24.11]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:32:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: Caverbru@aol.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:32:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Information on MSO and PSO courses Message-ID: <38DA7156.18858.6479D4@localhost> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu On 23 Mar 2000, at 8:27, Caverbru@aol.com wrote: > At its meeting in September 1999 the Eastern Region of the National > Cave Rescue Commission decided that there was a need for a weeklong > Level-3 course in Management of Cave Rescue (to include searches). A > brief discussion suggested that it might be prudent to take two > existing courses, combine them, and revise them, as needed, to apply > to caves. The two courses suggested are Managing the Search Operation, > MSO (formally Managing the Search Function, MSF) and Practicals of > Search Operations (PSO) developed, I believe, by Appalachian Search > and Rescue Conference (ASRC) and offered through the Virginia Ground > Search and Rescue School. Managing the Search Function (MSF) has, I believe, been updated and renamed as Managing the Lost Person Incident. The course is offered by NASAR and at one time, they refused to sell the text unless you took a course -- this may have changed. http://www.nasar.org/ An equivalent course, Managing Search Operations, is offered by Emergency Response Institute, and they definitely do sell the text. The web site is, I hear, out of date, but give it a try; and if not able to order it there, contact one of the principals, email address below: http://www.eri-intl.com/ "Skip Stoffel" "Rick LaValla" There is also a recent message from them about a new course, on the sar-l list, which I will forward to you and the list. The Practical Search Operations Course, an ideal follow-on course after MLPI or MSO, is offered by Search and Rescue Training Associates, which does the course on contract for the Commonwealth of Virginia as well as for the Appalachian Search and Rescue Conference and more recently the Pennsylvania SAR Council. Contact: David Carter or Commonwealth of Virginia SAR Coordinator: Winnie Pennington Bob Koester has a similar but shorter course, called Search Operations for Staff. http://www.people.Virginia.EDU/~rjk5a/sar.htm Hope this helps. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:31:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:31:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:28:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:27:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.67]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:27:38 -0500 (EST) From: Caverbru@aol.com Received: from Caverbru@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.b7.1a1539f (2617); Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:27:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:27:03 EST Subject: W-EMED Information on MSO and PSO courses To: amrg@list.pitt.edu, erncrc@svis.org, psc@sprucemt.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 70 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Folks, I need some help. At its meeting in September 1999 the Eastern Region of the National Cave Rescue Commission decided that there was a need for a weeklong Level-3 course in Management of Cave Rescue (to include searches). A brief discussion suggested that it might be prudent to take two existing courses, combine them, and revise them, as needed, to apply to caves. The two courses suggested are Managing the Search Operation, MSO (formally Managing the Search Function, MSF) and Practicals of Search Operations (PSO) developed, I believe, by Appalachian Search and Rescue Conference (ASRC) and offered through the Virginia Ground Search and Rescue School. Over the past six months I have attempted to obtain syllabi for these courses without success. Obviously I asked the wrong people so now I am going out to the caving, SAR, and WEMS communities to ask for assistance. I need a current syllabus for each of these courses as well as information on who controls the teaching materials and requirements for using the materials such as instructor certification and royalty fees, etc. It would also be helpful to get the names of instructors and instructor trainers who would be willing and available to assist in this project. Please feel free to forward this to others that you think may be of assistance. Thanks for your assistance. Bru Randall NSS 12730 Supervisory Instructor Eastern Region, National Cave Rescue Commission Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:55:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.3) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:54:07 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:54:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:48:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:47:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 02:47:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from dell (dialup-63.212.139.117.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [63.212.139.117]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09175 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:47:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000322234227.00a1cb60@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: telemedic@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:49:12 -0800 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Fred Wu Subject: Re: W-EMED subscription In-Reply-To: <49.2090757.260b14fe@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Robin, There are programs in Colorado and Wyoming offered by the Wilderness Medicine Institute of NOLS. The contact information is listed below. WMI of NOLS PO Box 9 Pitkin, CO 81241 (970)641-3572 wmi@nols.edu http://wmi.nols.edu/ Fred At 01:34 AM 3/23/00 -0500, you wrote: >Hey, i dont know if yaull are the ones that have the Colorado and Wyoming >wilderness training but if so Please send me some information. I plan on >taking one of the classes in Summer of 2001 when i finish EMT paramedics >course >Thank you >Robin Peck >PO BOX 546 >Port Allen, LA 70767 >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:53:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.3) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:53:03 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:53:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:36:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:35:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:35:12 -0500 (EST) From: NIBORS23@aol.com Received: from NIBORS23@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.49.2090757 (7703) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:34:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <49.2090757.260b14fe@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:34:38 EST Subject: W-EMED subscription To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 68 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Hey, i dont know if yaull are the ones that have the Colorado and Wyoming wilderness training but if so Please send me some information. I plan on taking one of the classes in Summer of 2001 when i finish EMT paramedics course Thank you Robin Peck PO BOX 546 Port Allen, LA 70767 Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:11:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:09:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:07:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.iwvisp.com (mail.iwvisp.com [198.77.196.4]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 01:07:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from iwvisp.com ([198.77.198.123]) by mail.iwvisp.com with ESMTP (IPAD 2.52/64) id 8875300; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:02:54 -0800 Message-ID: <38D86323.659CC713@iwvisp.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:07:41 -0800 From: chris antonsen Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED Re: Much ado about whistle signals References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Raised in rural Montana (near Yellowstone National Park) I learned the 'local' custom of 3 as the recognized distress signal. Given the option, that's still the signal I would use (be it whistle blasts or gun shots or whatever). However, if I was lost, fatigued, suffering from exposue and/or dehydration, and perhaps injured as well I might very well end up giving a single long blast, beginning strong and trailing off as my energy and breath drained, and repeated as often as I had energy to do it. I now have a fair amount of 'formal' experience in SAR (through membership in an MRA group and elsewhere) and I can only ask, "When on a search and a signal is heard that cannot definitively be ascribed to another searcher, why wouldn't you investigate?" Be it 1, 3, 6 or whatever, especially if it repeats from a given direction, it warrents investigating. The incident commander (or whatever the local equivalent is) should have defined a signal system (if intra-search communications are in fact being done by whistles) and ANY signal that deviates from that and/or keeps coming from the same place should be checked out. My personal experience is that search teams are broken into small groups (2 to 3) and each group has at least one radio. Within the group members seldom get very far beyond voice range (unless everyone has a radio), and even then re-contact is frequent (necessary). So if you hear a whistle blast it can rather quickly be determined whether or not it can definitively be assigned to another searcher (a positive confirmation from that from the searcher). Even then, it would be prudent to at least pause, and wait for the signal to repeat from the same local. As I recall, in the Hug-A-Tree program (a _real_ life saver - many documented cases where the lives of children have been saved because of what they learned in a 1 hour assembly) the rule on whistles is always carry one and use it ONLY when you are lost or in trouble. There is no effort to drill in some arbitrary pattern. Lets face, most lost people haven't had formal training in the right or wrong way(s) to use a whistle. If they have one at all, it's because somewhere they gleaned the idea that it would be smart to take one along 'just in case', and that's all the more they know about it. Just my penny's worth of thought(?). kit Douglas Burchard wrote: > Just to through a little more controversy into this... > > My 1997 copy of Rescue 3 International's Swiftwater Rescue Technician 1 > textbook shows 3 blasts of a whistle as meaning "move or look down stream". > And yes, live in the USA. According to the same book however, 3 blasts > repeated means "Emergency". Which sounds like it's similar to the UK > standard of 6 blasts (See Russell Hore's post earlier today). > > -- > Douglas Burchard, OEC, WEMT-B email: burchard@nwlink.com > King County Search and Rescue (KCSARA) phone: 425/562-1968 > Training Coordinator fax: 208/293-8639 > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:18:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:17:47 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:17:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:17:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:16:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:16:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [207.202.175.2] (ip2.r12.d.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.175.2]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13116 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:16:30 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:15:46 -0800 Subject: Re: W-EMED Question about survival whistle signals From: Douglas Burchard To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200003212102.NAA08226@macs.mxim.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Just to through a little more controversy into this... My 1997 copy of Rescue 3 International's Swiftwater Rescue Technician 1 textbook shows 3 blasts of a whistle as meaning "move or look down stream". And yes, live in the USA. According to the same book however, 3 blasts repeated means "Emergency". Which sounds like it's similar to the UK standard of 6 blasts (See Russell Hore's post earlier today). -- Douglas Burchard, OEC, WEMT-B email: burchard@nwlink.com King County Search and Rescue (KCSARA) phone: 425/562-1968 Training Coordinator fax: 208/293-8639 Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:47:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:46:37 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:46:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:45:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:43:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from macs.mxim.com (macs.mxim.com [204.17.143.130]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:43:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by macs.mxim.com (8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08226 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:02:56 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200003212102.NAA08226@macs.mxim.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Question about survival whistle signals In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:43:35 EST." <3.0.1.32.20000321124335.008bf100@mail.vt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:02:55 PST From: Hal Lillywhite Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu I agree it would be nice to get an international standard on number of whistle blasts (or other signal)to call for help. I've heard that some places (I don't remember where) the standard is *9*! It is quite clear that the standard in one country won't necessarily be the standard somewhere else. Absent an international body with jurisdiction in this area maybe the various SAR groups could just try to agree on something. I don't know how many countries have organizations like NASAR in the US but if such bodies got together and agreed on a standard, then publicized it, I think it would be accepted. My own preference is a distress signal of three blasts or whatever. The reason is that by the time someone is in need of help, that person is often tired, thirsty, hungry and cold. The energy level is usually low. If the requirement is for 6 or 9 whistle blasts I'm afraid the last few may be rather weak. I would prefer to see the person in distress give three good, solid blasts rather than run out of gas on number 5 or number 7 etc. Three is *usually* enough to be distinct from non-distress whistling but doesn't require the effort of 6 or 9 blasts. I think three is about as good a compromise as we are likely to find. (As a lighter aside, a few years ago I was on a search around Mt. Hood, Oregon. Most of us were using police (or sports official) type whistles. That became a real problem since some birds in the area have a call similar to those whistles. We would blow our standard two blasts and the birds would answer. We eventually found the subjects but they must have had a hard time distinguishing between us and the birds by sound.) Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:46:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:44:36 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:44:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:46:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:43:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailman.naxs.com (mailman.naxs.com [216.98.64.6]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:43:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from fairbanks ([151.199.74.193]) by mailman.naxs.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-42723U8000L3500S0) with SMTP id AAA211 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:43:20 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20000321124335.008bf100@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: crourke@mail.vt.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:43:35 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Chris Rourke Subject: Re: W-EMED Question about survival whistle signals In-Reply-To: <4b.208255e.2608f8b9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Heck, we can't even agree what side of the road to drive on, or what units to use to measure the speed we're driving. What chance do we have with whistle codes? For what its worth, I think both 3 and 6 have certain disadvantages. Three whistle blasts or gunshots could easily happen by chance, or by someone ignorant playing with a whistle, six is a bit more reliable. On the other hand, firing off six rounds of ammo, or building six fires in a row could be a bit of a pain. I think if I was ever so lost that I wasn't sure if I was in england or north america, I'd probably just stick to whistling out SOS in morse code. A bit breath intensive, but its not likely to be confused for anything other than a distress call. Chris Rourke Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:12:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:12:13 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:12:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:11:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:10:06 -0500 (EST) From: JadedMedic@aol.com Received: from JadedMedic@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.4b.208255e (6694) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:09:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4b.208255e.2608f8b9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:09:29 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED Question about survival whistle signals To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 66 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu In a message dated 3/21/00 1:20:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, Russell.Hore@capgemini.co.uk writes: > In the UK 'we' recommend 6 short blasts(noises) at one minute intervals. If > we hear this pattern, we as rescuers, respond with 3 short > blasts(noises)/minute. > The same pattern can be used with a torch etc. Hi there, [nod] Yeah, this is the sort of thing I was talking about. Over here on the left side of the pond, three short blasts is much more commonly taught as an "I need help" signal instead of an "I'm going to help you" signal. (Two short blasts is the most commonly taught "I'm going to help you" signal over here.) The potential for dangerous confusion and miscommunication is obvious. There seems to be a complete lack of standardization about this topic (and some others, but I'll stay away from them for now). It seems to me that it would be A Good Thing if this sort of thing could be internationally standardized so that all teachers of outdoor survival and/or search and rescue could be teaching the same thing to their students. However, I'm not at all sure that any sort of international body exists that could make a recommendation in this regard. Is there an international committee of SAR organizations? OTOH (on the other hand), if six blasts really is being taught as the international "I need help" signal, then maybe it would be easier to have The Powers That Be adopt it here in North America. Right now, my understanding is that six whistle blasts is commonly taught to American and Canadian SAR crews as a "return to base" signal. I know that the British survival manuals I have read teach that six (relatively short) whistle blasts is the international "I need help" signal. Does anybody have any documentation that it is also being taught in other countries? Regards, Jay Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:38:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:38:23 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:38:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:37:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.netcom.net.uk (root@mail1.netcom.net.uk [194.42.236.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 03:31:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ntsbh10.capgemini.co.uk (hgty.capgemini.co.uk [194.42.240.2]) by mail1.netcom.net.uk (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA13242 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:31:18 GMT Received: from nt-sbh-05.capgemini.co.uk (unverified) by ntsbh10.capgemini.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:16:21 +0000 X-Internal-ID: 38CE2FE300036F17 Received: from exsbh01.capgemini.co.uk (10.16.16.26) by nt-sbh-05.capgemini.co.uk (NPlex 2.0.108) for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; 21 Mar 2000 08:14:59 +0000 Received: by exsbh01.capgemini.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:16:21 -0000 Message-Id: <4D39D846C64CD3118B0B0008C75DC4C1F8E590@exast01.capgemini.co.uk> From: "Hore, Russell L" To: "'wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu'" Subject: RE: W-EMED Question about survival whistle signals Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:16:16 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu In the UK 'we' recommend 6 short blasts(noises) at one minute intervals. If we hear this pattern, we as rescueres, respond with 3 short blasts(noises)/minute. The same pattern can be used with a torch etc. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:59:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:58:55 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:58:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:58:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:54:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from eee.uia.net (mail.eee.org [207.67.175.56]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:54:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from eee.org (106.64.ont-3766.uia.net [131.161.64.106]) by eee.uia.net (8.8.8/8.8.5.uia-net) with ESMTP id TAA02514 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:53:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38D6F20F.EF1089DE@eee.org> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:52:48 -0800 From: Tom Schneider X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Question about survival whistle signals References: <70.1c341af.2607c2a0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Jake, I teach a "Hug-A-Tree" survival progam to elementary students. Over the past 2 years over 20,000 of them. In this program developed by the San Diego Search and Rescue unit, they recommend 3 blasts from the whistle with a rest in between. The frequency is as often as the lost person wants, but do repeat at frequent intervals to allow searchers that have traveled into the area to hear the sound. Actually, (I am with the Wrightwood Search and Rescue team), if I am searching for someone and hear a whistle, I would go in that direction and search. Normally, animals do not make that type of noise. Tom JadedMedic@aol.com wrote: > Hi folks, > > OK, so exactly how many times, in a survival situation, is somebody supposed > to blow their whistle to signal what? > > I've looked through numerous different books on the topic, and here's what > I've found... > > Most books (written for readers in the USA and Canada) which get specific at > all (some don't) recommend three whistle blasts to signal a general "I need > help" type of distress call. (This is part of the "three of anything" > indicates distress -- thus, three flashlight flashes, three gunshots, etc.) > They also, if they recommend anything, recommend a reply of two whistle > blasts to signal "I hear you and I'm coming to your aid." This seems easy > and sensible enough. > > However... > > I've also seen books written by more international (mainly British) authors > recommend six whistle blasts as the "internationally recognized distress > call." > > I've also seen authors recommend one short, one long, and one short blast. > Finally, I've seen the three short, three long, three short (SOS) pattern > recommended. > > ...and don't even get me started on the numerous and various recommendations > regarding how often these whistle blasts should be repeated. > > So, hypothetically, we as rescuers could hear three short blasts and/or six > short blasts and/or one short/one long/one short and/or the SOS pattern -- > all at various intervals. > > Excuse me, but...ACK!! > > Foolish fellow that I am, it seems to me that it would be nice if a single, > internationally recognized, pattern could be designated (kinda like pilots > calling "Mayday"). > > However, I have no idea of who would do this or how they would go about it. > > Any thoughts? > > Regards, > > Jay > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:12:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:11:31 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:11:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:09:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:07:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from t-mta3.odn.ne.jp (mfep3.odn.ne.jp [143.90.131.167]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:06:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from [143.90.243.98] by t-mta2.odn.ne.jp (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with ESMTP id <20000320220350.KKGU917.t-mta2.odn.ne.jp@[143.90.243.98]> for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:03:50 +0900 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.0 (1513) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:03:55 +0900 Subject: Re: W-EMED Question about survival whistle signals From: Mark Wallace To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <70.1c341af.2607c2a0@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Jay, I know what you mean. Everybody has their own way to signal for distress. For example, I teach my students to blow their whistle three medium~long blows and wait for about one minute and try again. I also explain to them that any whistle blow near a river or in the woods should be treated as a call for distress(or should atleast be investigated), because many people do not know how to call for help or they panic. Mark Wallace President MSE Outdoor Training Center President Ibaraki Outdoor Rescue Team 588-2 Kakurai-cho Mito-shi, Ibaraki-ken 311-4163 Japan Phone: +81-29-252-7585 Fax: +81-29-252-7584 email: cao03330@pop02.odn.ne.jp Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:11:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:09:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:07:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.72]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:07:15 -0500 (EST) From: JadedMedic@aol.com Received: from JadedMedic@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.70.1c341af (4398) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:06:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <70.1c341af.2607c2a0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:06:24 EST Subject: W-EMED Question about survival whistle signals To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 66 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Hi folks, OK, so exactly how many times, in a survival situation, is somebody supposed to blow their whistle to signal what? I've looked through numerous different books on the topic, and here's what I've found... Most books (written for readers in the USA and Canada) which get specific at all (some don't) recommend three whistle blasts to signal a general "I need help" type of distress call. (This is part of the "three of anything" indicates distress -- thus, three flashlight flashes, three gunshots, etc.) They also, if they recommend anything, recommend a reply of two whistle blasts to signal "I hear you and I'm coming to your aid." This seems easy and sensible enough. However... I've also seen books written by more international (mainly British) authors recommend six whistle blasts as the "internationally recognized distress call." I've also seen authors recommend one short, one long, and one short blast. Finally, I've seen the three short, three long, three short (SOS) pattern recommended. ...and don't even get me started on the numerous and various recommendations regarding how often these whistle blasts should be repeated. So, hypothetically, we as rescuers could hear three short blasts and/or six short blasts and/or one short/one long/one short and/or the SOS pattern -- all at various intervals. Excuse me, but...ACK!! Foolish fellow that I am, it seems to me that it would be nice if a single, internationally recognized, pattern could be designated (kinda like pilots calling "Mayday"). However, I have no idea of who would do this or how they would go about it. Any thoughts? Regards, Jay Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:24:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:24:07 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:24:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:22:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:19:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:19:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from micron (ehdup-r3-3.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.22.153]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:19:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:19:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED Pulse Ox units for SAR use. CC: sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com, EMS-L@listserv.ACNS.NWU.EDU Message-ID: <38D3C8C3.27917.4088677@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Thanks for all the advice and comments. To summarize them: 1. COLD AND PRACTICAL CLINICAL ISSUES. Pulse ox units don't sense well on a cold extremity or when someone's poorly perfused, or someone's wiggling a lot (Iike my daughter sometimes!) and are only one more diagnostic parameter that a good medic can use along with other factors to monitor the patient. To deal with a cold extremity, one can (a) warm it up, (b) put a little nitropaste on the finger to cause dilation, or (c) use a forehead sensor that is less susceptible to poor perfusion of extremities. Nonin makes such a forehead sensor, and I'd like to hear of anyone with experience with different brands of forehead sensor. And, the units themselves, especially the LEDs, don't work in the cold. The solution is to keep the unit packaged with the patient and just bring it out to check the readings. 1. NONIN ONYX. Nonin makes the Onyx tiny unit that fits on a finger -- but is a bit fragile, not very water resistant, and doesn't offer various sizes and types of sensor. Sounded neat but I decided against it. 3. NONIN 8500. Nonin also makes the Model 8500 which seems designed for EMS and helicopter use (meets MilSpec 801). It uses 6 AA alkaline cells, and will work fine on 6 disposable Eveready Lithium AA cells, which provide lighter weight, longer life (about 2-3x longer), and work fine even when it's so cold the LEDs won't light. The unit with AA lithium cells and case and leads and such weighs about half a pound (8 oz=240g). They give a battery life of 200 hours if your're using alkalines and keep the brightness turned all the way down. The unit is small (3"x6"x1"=8x15x2 cm), sturdy but not bombproof nor waterproof, but comes with a nice zipper padded Cordura case which has room for leads and sensors, and unzips in a way that shows the entire face of the unit through some clear plastic, allowing access to controls by pressing through th clear vinyl. The lead for the sensor comes out through a double-zipper slit at the top; the zipper can be snugged up around the lead but it's really only rain- resistant, not waterproof. There is no audio alarm, but if you're with the patient constantly as in EMS, an audio alarm is more a pain and battery drain than anything. You can get add-ons that have a memory, alarm and printer, but I wasn't interested in these addonsI decided to get one of these for my own use. For more: http://www.nonin.com/m8500_1.html 4. Nellcor N-20. These units are in constant use in our ED for spot checks, so I'm quite familiar with them, and generally happy with their performance. They're much heavier than the Nonin 8500 (about twice the size and three times the weight). They do have audio alarms and printers available, and work on C cells (no exact match lithium disposable cells available, though you could get 3V lithium C cells and use dummy cells to replace half the batteries). They are water-resistant about like the Nonin, but their "case" is realy a rubber thing that snaps around them and protect them when you drop them on a rock, but do nothing to protect the unit from water. May be a good choice for street EMS but too big and heavy for wilderness use. There are several other units on the market but these three stood out in my evaluation as the most likely to be used for SAR/Wilderness EMS. Hope this is of some use to you. Thanks again for all the comments. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:57:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:57:02 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:57:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:56:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:55:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:55:27 -0500 (EST) From: Omikid@aol.com Received: from Omikid@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.ad.18a7305 (4241) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:54:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:54:38 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED Re: pulse ox units for SAR use? To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 67 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu In a message dated 03/16/2000 04:42:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, morgan@icon.co.za writes: > Hello all, > This sounds great - what is the name, and who makes it? > > Arthur > http://www.nonin.com/onyx1.html Here is the web page. They market two, which to me look about the same. The Nonin Onyx, and the Nonin SportsStat which can be found at http://www.nonin.com/onyx1.html Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:59:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:59:06 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:59:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:06:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:01:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from cgi.icon.co.za (cgi.icon.co.za [196.35.95.41]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:01:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail450.icon.co.za (smtp.icon.co.za [196.35.95.40]) by cgi.icon.co.za (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6D04C580 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:09:57 +0200 (SAST) Received: from icon.co.za (c4-ndf-67.dial-up.net [196.34.159.195]) by mail450.icon.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04427 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:01:30 +0200 (GMT) Message-ID: <38D0FEAF.6D6E9480@icon.co.za> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:33:03 +0200 From: Arthur Morgan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en,af,pl MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Re: pulse ox units for SAR use? References: <38CBAA8B.6619.333825@localhost> <000201bf8d23$e3e0de40$354206d1@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Hello all, This sounds great - what is the name, and who makes it? Arthur Liza and Pat Judge wrote: > > I recently did a rotation with the respiratory dept. at the Hospital and > they used a unit that was self contained about the size of a walnut that > stuck on your finger. The display of HR and Spo2 was built into the unit. > Real covenant to carry but easy to lose. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:07:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:06:39 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:06:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:31:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:29:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:29:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from snickers (ehdup-v-7.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.24.17]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:29:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000f01bf8e9b$d23dbe00$11188e88@snickers> From: "Suzanne Atkinson" To: References: <20000315155525.63694.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: W-EMED Swiftwater Rescue Technician Course Level 1 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:30:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8E71.E808C240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8E71.E808C240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like more info, what are the dates, cost, etc. Suzanne Atkinson Allegheny Mtn. Rescue Group ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Bender=20 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 11:03 AM Subject: W-EMED Swiftwater Rescue Technician Course Level 1 For anyone living up North, we will be holding a SRT level 1 course in = Carrabassett Valley, Maine. This will include how to rescue flood = victims, river victims, and other rescue / medical techniques. This = course is co-sponsored by Rescue 3 international. If you want more info = email me. James It should be really fun, granted the ice is gone. Try not. Do . Or do not. There is no try ---Yoda ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8E71.E808C240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd like more info, what are the dates, = cost,=20 etc.
 
Suzanne Atkinson
Allegheny Mtn. Rescue = Group
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 James=20 Bender
To: wilderness-emergency-= medicine@list.pitt.edu=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 = 11:03=20 AM
Subject: W-EMED Swiftwater = Rescue=20 Technician Course Level 1

For anyone living up North, we will = be holding a=20 SRT level 1 course in Carrabassett Valley, Maine.  This will = include how=20 to rescue flood victims, river victims, and other rescue / medical=20 techniques.  This course is co-sponsored by Rescue 3 = international. =20 If you want more info email me.
 
James
 
It should be really fun, granted the = ice is=20 gone.
Try not.  Do . Or do not.  = There is no=20 try ---Yoda
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF8E71.E808C240-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:09:01 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:06:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:57:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe53.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.46]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:56:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 63695 invoked by uid 65534); 15 Mar 2000 15:55:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20000315155525.63694.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [216.227.178.46] From: "James Bender" To: Subject: W-EMED Swiftwater Rescue Technician Course Level 1 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:03:46 -0500 Organization: Mountain Aid Training International, INC. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF8E6E.22429980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF8E6E.22429980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For anyone living up North, we will be holding a SRT level 1 course in = Carrabassett Valley, Maine. This will include how to rescue flood = victims, river victims, and other rescue / medical techniques. This = course is co-sponsored by Rescue 3 international. If you want more info = email me. James It should be really fun, granted the ice is gone. Try not. Do . Or do not. There is no try ---Yoda ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF8E6E.22429980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For anyone living up North, we will be = holding a=20 SRT level 1 course in Carrabassett Valley, Maine.  This will = include how to=20 rescue flood victims, river victims, and other rescue / medical=20 techniques.  This course is co-sponsored by Rescue 3 = international. =20 If you want more info email me.
 
James
 
It should be really fun, granted the = ice is=20 gone.
Try not.  Do . Or do not.  = There is no=20 try ---Yoda
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF8E6E.22429980-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:09:32 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:09:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:09:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:08:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe13.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.117]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:08:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 32284 invoked by uid 65534); 15 Mar 2000 13:08:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20000315130817.32283.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [216.227.178.203] From: "James Bender" To: Subject: W-EMED SAR in MO Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:16:39 -0500 Organization: Mountain Aid Training International, INC. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF8E56.C9A61660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF8E56.C9A61660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Since my wife and I are heading out to the gateway of the west so she = can go to NP school. We will be living in Columbia MO or the = surrounding area. Anyone have any iformation of SAR teams out there? James Try not. Do . Or do not. There is no try ---Yoda ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF8E56.C9A61660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
Since my wife and I are heading out to = the gateway=20 of the west so she can go to NP school.  We will be living in = Columbia MO=20 or the surrounding area.  Anyone have any iformation of SAR teams = out=20 there?
 
James
 
Try not.  Do . Or do not.  = There is no=20 try ---Yoda
------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BF8E56.C9A61660-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:09:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:09:09 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:09:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:07:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:07:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (oe21.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.240.125]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:07:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 48334 invoked by uid 65534); 15 Mar 2000 13:06:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20000315130629.48333.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [216.227.178.203] From: "James Bender" To: References: <38CBAA8B.6619.333825@localhost> Subject: Re: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:14:48 -0500 Organization: Mountain Aid Training International, INC. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Greetings From Maine, (And we just got more snow) I will give you the view of using a pulse ox from the view of snowmobile rescues (Since this is the time we actually have oxygen in the sleds and machines and fireman around here wont carry the oxygen bottles up the mountain in the summertime). 1. I like the nonin and since that is what the hospital buys us that is what we use. 2.The hospital supplies a forehead probe for the nonin and nelcore. The maker of this $150 probe states it will pick up o2 sats even in hypothermic patients at 90 degrees. ( We have actually gotten good results with the probe, and it is a patient billable item, so it gets tack on to their wilderness rescue bill). So I really like the probe. 3. Since we can monitor their o2 we can give the right amount of o2 and lengthen our supply ( a point already made here in other emails). 4. There is one downfall. The manufactures of the nonin usually will not claim accuracy if the device falls below a certain temperature ( I think it is 40-50F.) And this from experience is true. Example: We had someone ferry our more oxygen and a pulse ox during a snowmobile rescue. He had the pulse ox strapped to his sled. When he met up with us, the pulse ox was quite frozen, and did not work. So I suggest, keep a heat pack with the pulse ox in the winter. (this seems to work) Hope you fine this useful. James Try not. Do . Or do not. There is no try ---Yoda ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP To: Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 2:32 PM Subject: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? > Looking for advice. I've been thinking about a small pulse ox for > field use (mostly mountain and cave rescue, occasional street use) > and my 8-month-old daughter's recent bout of RSV pneumonia (with > a low pulse ox requiring a 10-day stay in the hospital) persuaded me > it could be useful at home, too. > > I know they aren't any good when people are cold or poorly > perfusing, which is why I've held off until now -- but in SAR, after all, > we should be able to warm people up to where a pulse ox will work > long before we get them out, right? > > > Has anyone researched pulse ox units for SAR use, or have any > recommendations? Thanks for your reply. And I will assume, > unless you say otherwise in your reply, that it's OK to cross-post > your reply or portions of it to other lists where there is interest. > > Thanks very much. > --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP > http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:44:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:34:46 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:34:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:32:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:27:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.72]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:27:22 -0500 (EST) From: Omikid@aol.com Received: from Omikid@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.22.31e10d1 (4395) for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:26:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <22.31e10d1.260016a4@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:26:44 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED New Product (Bandage) To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 67 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Never used them anywhere but around home, but they are comparatively waterproof and pretty durable with around the house work. (cleaning, washing dishes) and stay on and keep underneath skin pretty dry, even when submerged. they do not stay on well if skin becomes moist underneath (such as with lots of sweat after working out) and take some practice to apply without wrinkles. Just some personal comments, take care, Naomi Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:59:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:58:11 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:58:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:30:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:29:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:29:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from unixs1.cis.pitt.edu (jmbst85@unixs1.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.31]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:29:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:29:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jonnathan M Busko X-Sender: jmbst85@unixs1.cis.pitt.edu To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu cc: "Matthew F. Russell, M.D." Subject: RE: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? In-Reply-To: <38CD4911.1638.9DF2ED6@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Just my two cents-If you're REALLY patient and don't mind fidgiting and fumbling, you can do continuos monitoring with the onyx-at least for 5-10 minutes. Jonnathan > > Hi, Matt. One question about the Nonin, or for that matter, any spot- > check unit. I've found in the ED that the spot-check meters are > sometimes unreliable -- and that hooking someone up to a > continuous-reading unit for about 5-10 minutes give a better picture > of how someone is doing. Are there any of the tiny units that > anyone's used that will allow continuous monitoring (assuming you > have lots of batteries)? > > --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP > http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:19:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:18:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:17:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:16:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:16:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip236.ottawa8.dialup.canada.psi.net ([154.5.70.236]) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 12Uv4t-0003vi-00 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:25:57 -0500 X-Sender: pirie@istar.ca (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:16:07 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: pirie@istar.ca (Steven D. Pirie) Subject: W-EMED New Product (Bandage) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Hello all, Just a quick question. A freind dropped an ass for a new product in my mail box at work, suggesting it might be good for my wilderness travels. It is called Ultra (sterile bandages) and is put out by Elastoplast. It looks like a small piece of telfa underneath a piece of tegaderm / opsite. It also claims to be waterproof. Anyways, has anyone used these in the field before, if so how did they work? Also... If anyone is out there from North Shore Rescue (Vancouver, Canada) excellent SAR article in this month's Canadian Geographic, keep up the good work. Steven ---------------------------------------------------------- Lt. Steven D. Pirie, RN, BScN, UE General Duty Ward Officer - Military In-Patient Unit Canadian Forces Support Unit Ottawa - Civic Hospital Site 2 Health Support Operational Training Unit ---------------------------------------------------------- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:13:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:12:37 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:12:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:10:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from shepherd.hurlburt.af.mil (shepherd.hurlburt.af.mil [151.166.15.65]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:10:05 -0500 (EST) From: Robert.Allen@hurlburt.af.mil Received: from shepherd.hurlburt.af.mil (root@localhost) by shepherd.hurlburt.af.mil with ESMTP id JAA27357 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:07:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from exwncc01.hurlburt.af.mil (exwncc01.hurlburt.af.mil [151.166.208.37]) by shepherd.hurlburt.af.mil with ESMTP id JAA27351 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:07:11 -0600 (CST) Received: by exwncc01.hurlburt.af.mil with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:09:24 -0600 Message-ID: To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: RE: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:06:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Keith: My $0.02 worth: I've had some experience with the Nonin "Onyx", the finger pulse oximeter. It's a nice piece of equipment, but it has some significant drawbacks. Advantages: -Small, lightweight, takes up virtually no room/weight in the pack. -Generally accurate in normothermic, non-shocky patient Disadvantages: -Fragile. Does not stand up to heavy-duty use in outdoor environments. -Not water resistant. -Batteries drain rapidly with use. -Batteries drain rapidly in storage. Twice I've pulled it out of my pack to use it (after storage for 1-2 months under indoor conditions) and found the unit dead. -Has no alarms. -Not designed for continous monitoring. -Can only be used on fingers or toes. That being said, we do carry some of these, and the PJ's like them. In fact, I keep one in my desk drawer, and grab it if I have to head out to the range for last-minute medical coverage. Personally, I prefer the Nonin 8500 or the Nellcor N-20 units. Larger, heavier units, but last longer, more versitile, put up with more abuse. Regards, Rob Allen Robert C. Allen, DO, FACEP Lt Col, USAF MC FS Group Surgeon 720th Special Tactics Group (AFSOC) 223 Cody Ave Hurlburt Field, FL 32544-5309 DSN 579-4243 Comm 850-884-4243 E-Mail: Robert.Allen@hurlburt.af.mil -----Original Message----- From: Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP [mailto:kconover+@pitt.edu] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 1:33 PM To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Cc: EMS-L@listserv.ACNS.NWU.EDU; sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com Subject: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Looking for advice. I've been thinking about a small pulse ox for field use (mostly mountain and cave rescue, occasional street use) and my 8-month-old daughter's recent bout of RSV pneumonia (with a low pulse ox requiring a 10-day stay in the hospital) persuaded me it could be useful at home, too. I know they aren't any good when people are cold or poorly perfusing, which is why I've held off until now -- but in SAR, after all, we should be able to warm people up to where a pulse ox will work long before we get them out, right? Has anyone researched pulse ox units for SAR use, or have any recommendations? Thanks for your reply. And I will assume, unless you say otherwise in your reply, that it's OK to cross-post your reply or portions of it to other lists where there is interest. Thanks very much. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:43:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:42:29 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:42:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:42:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:39:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.aims.edu (zeus.aims.edu [205.169.69.253]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from Kuehn.sf.aims.edu ([10.2.21.152]) by zeus.aims.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA08150 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:38:52 -0700 (MST) From: "Jeremy Kuehn" To: Subject: RE: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:37:12 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <00e301bf8d59$081c4760$25796620@ROCKET> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Steve, Something else to consider is that the pulse ox needs to be considered as one of many indications of the status of a patient. It's a measure of the percent of oxygen at the peripheral compared to the amount of blood. It doesn't account well for blood loss (internal/external) and a shocky patient (decreased peripheral perfusion) will affect the reading. Like any piece of equipment, it needs to be considered a resource for assessment and not an answer to all of the questions we have about our patients. Jeremy Kuehn Aims Community College Greeley, CO -----Original Message----- From: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu [mailto:owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu]On Behalf Of Steve Kelleher Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 6:59 PM To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? I've been considering adding these to our arsenal of backcountry medical equipment too. My primary reason for having them would be to help ration our oxygen administration on a long evacuation since the logistics of rotating O2 cylinders into the field can get difficult. After all, if a patient has a good O2 sat, there's no reason to pump 15L of O2 in them needlessly, or is there? I'd be interested to hear input on the efficacy of using a pulse ox. for this purpose. Certainly the technical issues of charged batteries and the difficulty of getting readings in hypothermic patients are problems, but are there other issues? Thanks; Steve Kelleher EMS Director Alpine Rescue Team, Inc. Evergreen, CO. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:43:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:42:29 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:42:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:42:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:39:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.aims.edu (zeus.aims.edu [205.169.69.253]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from Kuehn.sf.aims.edu ([10.2.21.152]) by zeus.aims.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA08150 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:38:52 -0700 (MST) From: "Jeremy Kuehn" To: Subject: RE: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:37:12 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <00e301bf8d59$081c4760$25796620@ROCKET> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Steve, Something else to consider is that the pulse ox needs to be considered as one of many indications of the status of a patient. It's a measure of the percent of oxygen at the peripheral compared to the amount of blood. It doesn't account well for blood loss (internal/external) and a shocky patient (decreased peripheral perfusion) will affect the reading. Like any piece of equipment, it needs to be considered a resource for assessment and not an answer to all of the questions we have about our patients. Jeremy Kuehn Aims Community College Greeley, CO -----Original Message----- From: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu [mailto:owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu]On Behalf Of Steve Kelleher Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 6:59 PM To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? I've been considering adding these to our arsenal of backcountry medical equipment too. My primary reason for having them would be to help ration our oxygen administration on a long evacuation since the logistics of rotating O2 cylinders into the field can get difficult. After all, if a patient has a good O2 sat, there's no reason to pump 15L of O2 in them needlessly, or is there? I'd be interested to hear input on the efficacy of using a pulse ox. for this purpose. Certainly the technical issues of charged batteries and the difficulty of getting readings in hypothermic patients are problems, but are there other issues? Thanks; Steve Kelleher EMS Director Alpine Rescue Team, Inc. Evergreen, CO. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:08:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from prserv.net (out4.prserv.net [32.97.166.34]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:07:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ROCKET ([32.102.121.37]) by prserv.net (out4) with SMTP id <20000314020743239023lu46e>; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 02:07:43 +0000 Message-ID: <00e301bf8d59$081c4760$25796620@ROCKET> From: "Steve Kelleher" To: References: Subject: Re: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:58:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu I've been considering adding these to our arsenal of backcountry medical equipment too. My primary reason for having them would be to help ration our oxygen administration on a long evacuation since the logistics of rotating O2 cylinders into the field can get difficult. After all, if a patient has a good O2 sat, there's no reason to pump 15L of O2 in them needlessly, or is there? I'd be interested to hear input on the efficacy of using a pulse ox. for this purpose. Certainly the technical issues of charged batteries and the difficulty of getting readings in hypothermic patients are problems, but are there other issues? Thanks; Steve Kelleher EMS Director Alpine Rescue Team, Inc. Evergreen, CO. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew F. Russell, M.D." To: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 3:25 PM Subject: RE: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? > I too have played with the Nonin and agree with Jonathan's remarks. Although > I'd add that I have played with it on hypothermic patients and have had > problems with adequate signal acquisition in (even only mild) hypothermic > conditions. Note also that the Nonin is designed for spot checks only and > not continual O2 sat monitoring. (A minimal limitation that does not limit > is viable use) > > As for real SAR applications, it depends on what you mean. Clearly its most > common application in the wilderness environment is in the high altitude > arena. It is now general practice among many expeditions to carry an nonin > O2 sat monitor and generate a log of vital signs and O2 sats for individuals > throughout the expedition. > > As for SAR applications as likely to be encountered around here - it's hard > to see what it adds because of the usual lack of resources to address any > hypoxia you might encounter or note with the device. > > MFR Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:09:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:08:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from prserv.net (out4.prserv.net [32.97.166.34]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:07:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ROCKET ([32.102.121.37]) by prserv.net (out4) with SMTP id <20000314020743239023lu46e>; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 02:07:43 +0000 Message-ID: <00e301bf8d59$081c4760$25796620@ROCKET> From: "Steve Kelleher" To: References: Subject: Re: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:58:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.5600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.5600 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu I've been considering adding these to our arsenal of backcountry medical equipment too. My primary reason for having them would be to help ration our oxygen administration on a long evacuation since the logistics of rotating O2 cylinders into the field can get difficult. After all, if a patient has a good O2 sat, there's no reason to pump 15L of O2 in them needlessly, or is there? I'd be interested to hear input on the efficacy of using a pulse ox. for this purpose. Certainly the technical issues of charged batteries and the difficulty of getting readings in hypothermic patients are problems, but are there other issues? Thanks; Steve Kelleher EMS Director Alpine Rescue Team, Inc. Evergreen, CO. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew F. Russell, M.D." To: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 3:25 PM Subject: RE: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? > I too have played with the Nonin and agree with Jonathan's remarks. Although > I'd add that I have played with it on hypothermic patients and have had > problems with adequate signal acquisition in (even only mild) hypothermic > conditions. Note also that the Nonin is designed for spot checks only and > not continual O2 sat monitoring. (A minimal limitation that does not limit > is viable use) > > As for real SAR applications, it depends on what you mean. Clearly its most > common application in the wilderness environment is in the high altitude > arena. It is now general practice among many expeditions to carry an nonin > O2 sat monitor and generate a log of vital signs and O2 sats for individuals > throughout the expedition. > > As for SAR applications as likely to be encountered around here - it's hard > to see what it adds because of the usual lack of resources to address any > hypoxia you might encounter or note with the device. > > MFR Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:03:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:02:52 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:02:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:01:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:01:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from klaptop (ehdup-s3-7.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.22.217]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:01:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: "Matthew F. Russell, M.D." , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:01:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Message-ID: <38CD4911.1638.9DF2ED6@localhost> In-reply-to: References: <38CBAA8B.6619.333825@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu On 12 Mar 2000, at 17:25, Matthew F. Russell, M.D. wrote: > I too have played with the Nonin and agree with Jonathan's remarks. > Although I'd add that I have played with it on hypothermic patients > and have had problems with adequate signal acquisition in (even only > mild) hypothermic conditions. Note also that the Nonin is designed for > spot checks only and not continual O2 sat monitoring. (A minimal > limitation that does not limit is viable use) Hi, Matt. One question about the Nonin, or for that matter, any spot- check unit. I've found in the ED that the spot-check meters are sometimes unreliable -- and that hooking someone up to a continuous-reading unit for about 5-10 minutes give a better picture of how someone is doing. Are there any of the tiny units that anyone's used that will allow continuous monitoring (assuming you have lots of batteries)? --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:19:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:18:27 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:18:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:16:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:15:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp.nwlink.com (smtp.nwlink.com [209.20.130.57]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:15:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from [207.202.174.17] (ip17.r9.d.bel.nwlink.com [207.202.174.17]) by smtp.nwlink.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25805 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:15:13 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:15:01 -0800 Subject: Re: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? From: Douglas Burchard To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <71.169e33a.25fd89ea@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > From: Yankeemedc@aol.com > > If abnormal laboratory values are not discovered and acted upon, they are of > no use to the patient and a waste of both time and money. > > This stuck out at the time, because whenever an intern or resident gets > awakened in the middle of the night for a patient with a problem, many seem > to have a standard battery of tests they order, many of which are unrelated > to the patient's condition. But they order them anyway so they have time to > wake up and think. It makes them feel better, they are doing something. My > point?? If you want to know O2 sats, fine. Just be ready to do something > about it, otherwise, I'm not sure it is worth knowing if you are doing > everything you already can. May be a simplistic way of looking at it. My > other point would be, even if you do have oxygen, you are going to give it > based on clinical signs and symptoms, right?? O2 sats are nice to know, but > prehospitally, are they vital? I'm sure I'll catch flak on this one, but I > think you can go with too much tech sometimes. Far from giving you flak, I completely agree. We recently purchased a couple of pulse oxymeters and are field testing them now. Sorry, I don't remember off hand the make and model. The argument's been made that this will facilitate taking basic vitals (pulse, anyway). But as Training Coordinator my concern is that the device will facilitate an "attach and forget" habit. We'll have to watch and see the effects. -- Douglas Burchard Direct: 425/562-1968 Efax: 208/293-8639 Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:00:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.3) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:00:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:58:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (smtp10.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.200.246]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:56:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from LOCALNAME (user-37ka7nu.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.30.254]) by smtp10.atl.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA10644 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:56:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.20000313194725.3bbfdb66@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: pmturner@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:47:25 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Patton Turner Subject: Re: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? In-Reply-To: <38CBAA8B.6619.333825@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu At 02:32 PM 3/12/00 -0500, you wrote: >Looking for advice. I've been thinking about a small pulse ox for >field use (mostly mountain and cave rescue, occasional street use) >and my 8-month-old daughter's recent bout of RSV pneumonia (with >a low pulse ox requiring a 10-day stay in the hospital) persuaded me >it could be useful at home, too. In response to a letter in "Avation Safety" asking for advice on taking young children flying, a FAA Medical examiner recommended the Nonix pulse ox. I had quite a bit of trouble locating any information on it until I found it at aeromedix (www.aeromedix.com, IIRC).It seems to be pretty popular among pilots for monitoring for hypoxia. Pat Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:06:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:05:25 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:05:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:03:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:02:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:02:30 -0500 (EST) From: Yankeemedc@aol.com Received: from Yankeemedc@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.71.169e33a (4225) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:01:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <71.169e33a.25fd89ea@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:01:46 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 68 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Would like to reiterate on a point Dr. Russell makes. Years ago, when I was working my way through paramedic schoolas a blood gas tech on nights and weekends, I came across a quote in one of the medical journals that has stuck with me through the years. I can't quote it, but will paraphrase, rather closely, I hope. If abnormal laboratory values are not discovered and acted upon, they are of no use to the patient and a waste of both time and money. This stuck out at the time, because whenever an intern or resident gets awakened in the middle of the night for a patient with a problem, many seem to have a standard battery of tests they order, many of which are unrelated to the patient's condition. But they order them anyway so they have time to wake up and think. It makes them feel better, they are doing something. My point?? If you want to know O2 sats, fine. Just be ready to do something about it, otherwise, I'm not sure it is worth knowing if you are doing everything you already can. May be a simplistic way of looking at it. My other point would be, even if you do have oxygen, you are going to give it based on clinical signs and symptoms, right?? O2 sats are nice to know, but prehospitally, are they vital? I'm sure I'll catch flak on this one, but I think you can go with too much tech sometimes. Oh, BTW, I do use one on the ambulance, but really only to give me numbers to back up my clinical judgement. Charles F. Dusha Assistant Chief/Paramedic Logan-Rogersville Fire District Springfield, MO Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:27:29 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:27:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:26:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp8.gateway.net (relayd.gateway.net [208.230.117.252]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:25:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (1Cust162.tnt4.pittsburgh.pa.da.uu.net [63.10.64.162]) by smtp8.gateway.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10204 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:25:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew F. Russell, M.D." To: Subject: RE: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:25:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <38CBAA8B.6619.333825@localhost> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu I too have played with the Nonin and agree with Jonathan's remarks. Although I'd add that I have played with it on hypothermic patients and have had problems with adequate signal acquisition in (even only mild) hypothermic conditions. Note also that the Nonin is designed for spot checks only and not continual O2 sat monitoring. (A minimal limitation that does not limit is viable use) As for real SAR applications, it depends on what you mean. Clearly its most common application in the wilderness environment is in the high altitude arena. It is now general practice among many expeditions to carry an nonin O2 sat monitor and generate a log of vital signs and O2 sats for individuals throughout the expedition. As for SAR applications as likely to be encountered around here - it's hard to see what it adds because of the usual lack of resources to address any hypoxia you might encounter or note with the device. MFR -----Original Message----- From: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu [mailto:owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu]On Behalf Of Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 2:33 PM To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Cc: EMS-L@listserv.ACNS.NWU.EDU; sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com Subject: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? Looking for advice. I've been thinking about a small pulse ox for field use (mostly mountain and cave rescue, occasional street use) and my 8-month-old daughter's recent bout of RSV pneumonia (with a low pulse ox requiring a 10-day stay in the hospital) persuaded me it could be useful at home, too. I know they aren't any good when people are cold or poorly perfusing, which is why I've held off until now -- but in SAR, after all, we should be able to warm people up to where a pulse ox will work long before we get them out, right? Has anyone researched pulse ox units for SAR use, or have any recommendations? Thanks for your reply. And I will assume, unless you say otherwise in your reply, that it's OK to cross-post your reply or portions of it to other lists where there is interest. Thanks very much. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:09:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:08:41 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:06:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:06:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:06:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from unixs1.cis.pitt.edu (jmbst85@unixs1.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.31]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:06:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:06:15 -0500 (EST) From: Jonnathan M Busko X-Sender: jmbst85@unixs1.cis.pitt.edu To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED pulse ox units for SAR use? In-Reply-To: <38CBAA8B.6619.333825@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Looking for advice. I've been thinking about a small pulse ox for > field use (mostly mountain and cave rescue, occasional street use) > and my 8-month-old daughter's recent bout of RSV pneumonia (with > a low pulse ox requiring a 10-day stay in the hospital) persuaded me > it could be useful at home, too. Keith (et al.) The USAR team I'm on uses the Nonin Onyx as our pulse ox. I've played around with it. The design (paricularly the spring which holds to two halves together) has some flaws, and you are restricted to finger monitoring only. Additionally, as the screen is on the unit and there is no "remote", you have to be able to get access to the patient's finger to read the measurement as well. However, we've used it on some field exercises (confined space rescue kind of stuff) and it works very well. My only question is this: Until we come up with a better way to deliver oxygen in these remote environments (I'm not carting a D tank with me and that's final), I'm not totally sure that our physical exam is sufficient for the level of care we can provide. On the other hand, after we get a chance to play with your oxygen generator and the REMO2 system, maybe we'll have a workable device. Jonnathan Jonnathan Busko, MPH, NREMT-P Primum non nocere Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:41:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:41:04 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:41:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:39:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:36:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:36:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from klaptop (ehdup-n-16.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.22.46]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 19:36:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: mra@altadena.net, "Allegheny Mtn. Rescue Maillist" Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 18:37:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED (Fwd) Weeklong Y2K CC: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com Message-ID: <38C2A964.31353.C1A7E4B@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu I estimate that 80% of the content is relevant to mountain rescue as well. An excellent training opportunity. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP Allegheny Mountain Rescue Group Instructor, Eastern Region, NCRC National Cave Rescue Commission of the National Speleological Society PRESENTS "Weeklong '2000' Cave Rescue Training Hosted By The National Cave Rescue Commission Easter Region July 15 - 23, 2000 Beverly, West Virginia Program Overview These courses consist of extensive classroom and field work designed to maximize the learning experience. The cave rescue programs provide studies in underground environment, vertical rescue, pulley systems, extrication techniques, basic medical principles, communications, and management of cave rescue operations. Wilderness EMT specializes in the application of medical skills in 'non-traditional' settings. These courses provide basic and advanced material for students who typically include cavers, emergency services personnel, and emergency managers. During the eight days students will receive approximately 100 hours of instruction for each level. Students should expect to be "on the move" from early in the morning to well into the evening. These programs are physically strenuous and participants must be in good physical condition. Students should be prepared to work in difficult situations both above grade and underground. About the Courses Team Member Level 1 consists of extensive training in all phases of cave rescue. Students will be instructed in incident command systems, basic medical procedures, pulley systems, cave environment, communications, litter rigging and transport, and single rope techniques. By the conclusion of this course the student should be well prepared to serve as a team member in most rescue situations. Team Leader Level 2 takes over where Team Member concluded. Team Member Level 1 is a prerequisite for Team Leader Level 2. Students will receive more advanced training in many of the disciplines covered in Team Member training. Team Leader assumes that students have learned and practiced the skills previously taught. In addition, students will have an opportunity to develop and enhance their leadership and management skills. Specialist Level 3 Wilderness EMT is designed to train medical personnel in the application of their skills in the cave and wilderness setting. Students are encouraged to have previous SAR or Cave Rescue experience. Prior certification as an EMT or higher is a prerequisite for this course. WEMT expands on the student's assessment, intervention, and stabilization skills. Operations in the cave environment are emphasized. This course meets the standards established by the Wilderness EMS Institute. Specialist Level 3 Vertical provides the student an opportunity to expand and refine their vertical rescue skills. Extensive field work in highlines, pulley systems, rebelays, and non-traditional vertical systems. Team Leader Level 2 is a prerequisite for Specialist Level 3 Vertical. For More Information and an application contact: John Appleby (215) 541-4994 John Massa (704) 892-6077 Information also available at the ER-NCRC web site, http://svis.org/erncrc/erncrc.htm Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:56:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:55:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:52:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from futureone.com (mail.futureone.com [209.250.0.14]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:52:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (ppp2-14.wik.dialup.futureone.com [209.250.12.14]) by futureone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3+tla) with SMTP id OAA12470 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:59:51 -0700 Message-ID: <001a01bf7d7f$0b0a3480$0e0cfad1@pavilion> From: "Doc Thomas" To: References: <000c01bf7bcc$541880a0$36178e88@snickers> <003e01bf7d3b$d3bd3c40$1b0cfad1@pavilion> <001601bf7d41$90029da0$7e178e88@snickers> Subject: Re: W-EMED Case Studies Wanted Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:51:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF7D3B.FC052000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF7D3B.FC052000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Suzanne(my younger sister's name also)send me your personal e-mail = address as I don't want everyone on the list to hear specific details = about private patients ..thanks Doc ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF7D3B.FC052000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =FF=FE<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =00P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 = =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00D=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =004=00.=000=00 = =00T=00r=00a=00n=00s=00i=00t=00i=00o=00n=00a=00l=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00= l=00;=00 = =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=3D=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"=00 = =00h=00t=00t=00p=00-=00e=00q=00u=00i=00v=00=3D=00C=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00= t=00-=00T=00y=00p=00e=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00M=00S=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =005=00.=000=000=00.=002=007=002=002=00.=002=008=000=000=00"=00 = =00n=00a=00m=00e=00=3D=00G=00E=00N=00E=00R=00A=00T=00O=00R=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00<=00/=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00/=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00 = =00b=00g=00C=00o=00l=00o=00r=00=3D=00#=00d=008=00d=000=00c=008=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00F=00O=00N=00T=00 = =00s=00i=00z=00e=00=3D=004=00>=00S=00u=00z=00a=00n=00n=00e=00(=00m=00y=00= =00y=00o=00u=00n=00g=00e=00r=00 =00s=00i=00s=00t=00e=00r=00'=00s=00 = =00n=00a=00m=00e=00 =00a=00l=00s=00o=00)=00s=00e=00n=00d=00 =00m=00e=00 = =00y=00o=00u=00r=00 =00p=00e=00r=00s=00o=00n=00a=00l=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00e=00-=00m=00a=00i=00l=00 =00a=00d=00d=00r=00e=00s=00s=00 =00a=00s=00 = =00I=00 =00d=00o=00n=00'=00t=00 =00w=00a=00n=00t=00 = =00e=00v=00e=00r=00y=00o=00n=00e=00 =00o=00n=00 =00t=00h=00e=00 = =00l=00i=00s=00t=00 =00t=00o=00 =00h=00e=00a=00r=00 = =00s=00p=00e=00c=00i=00f=00i=00c=00 =00d=00e=00t=00a=00i=00l=00s=00 = =00=0D=00=0A= =00a=00b=00o=00u=00t=00 =00p=00r=00i=00v=00a=00t=00e=00 = =00p=00a=00t=00i=00e=00n=00t=00s=00 = =00.=00.=00t=00h=00a=00n=00k=00s=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 = =00D=00o=00c=00<=00/=00F=00O=00N=00T=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00/=00= B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00<=00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BF7D3B.FC052000-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:00:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i1.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.185.162]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1924"@[136.142.183.91]) by mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01JM7L6K43DU001MBW@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu> for list-owners@list.srv.cis.pitt.edu; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:26 EST Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:25 -0500 From: "Terry J. Wood" Subject: A heads up about possible HACKING on Majordomo To: list-owners@list.pitt.edu Message-id: <38B2DB61.ED1B44FD@pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-list-owners@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You are receiving this message because you maintain a mailing list on list.pitt.edu. Please do not unsubscribe, since important mailings about list.pitt.edu will take place here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello, I don't want to panic anyone, but this is a heads up about an unusual activity that I just detected happening on our Majordomo service. An email from Iran has just attempted to subscribe to all of the lists on the Pitt Majordomo server. If you have your list set up to approve additions to your list, you'll see a message from Majordomo saying: ----- Imami@www.dci.co.ir requests that you approve the following: subscribe XXXXXXXXXX Imami@www.dci.co.ir If you approve, please send a message such as the following back to Majordomo@list.pitt.edu (with the appropriate PASSWORD filled in, of course): approve PASSWORD subscribe XXXXXXXXXXXX Imami@www.dci.co.ir If you disapprove, do nothing. Thanks! Majordomo@list.pitt.edu ----- (where XXXXXXXXXXXX is the name of your list). I checked the incoming control messages for this requester. He appears to have subscribed to every mailing list on our server. Now maybe he just likes getting e-mail. But he subscribed to some lists I created to detect this sort of activity -- lists which serve no other purpose. So we'll want to keep alert. If there appears to be another attack on the server, I'll need to hear from YOU ASAP! Please call the HELP DESK and file a ticket if you see the sort of attack we experienced back in December and January. The number for the help desk is 412-624-HELP (412-624-4357). I can block this sort of attack quickly if I'm notified in time. Otherwise, we may just have a "newbie" who doesn't realize just how much e-mail he's in store for. Or the account in Iran has been broken into and someone is pulling a prank on them. In any case, if you have a closed list, you should consider if you want to add this address given the circumstances. If you don't have a closed list, you may want to consider removing him and/or closing your list. I intend upon contacting the address in question and inquiring about this activity. I'll contact not only the user in question but the postmaster at the site in case the account has been compromised. Terry J. Wood Postmaster, etc. Network Services University of Pittsburgh -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:00:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i1.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.185.162]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1924"@[136.142.183.91]) by mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01JM7L6K43DU001MBW@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu> for list-owners@list.srv.cis.pitt.edu; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:26 EST Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:25 -0500 From: "Terry J. Wood" Subject: A heads up about possible HACKING on Majordomo To: list-owners@list.pitt.edu Message-id: <38B2DB61.ED1B44FD@pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-list-owners@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You are receiving this message because you maintain a mailing list on list.pitt.edu. Please do not unsubscribe, since important mailings about list.pitt.edu will take place here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello, I don't want to panic anyone, but this is a heads up about an unusual activity that I just detected happening on our Majordomo service. An email from Iran has just attempted to subscribe to all of the lists on the Pitt Majordomo server. If you have your list set up to approve additions to your list, you'll see a message from Majordomo saying: ----- Imami@www.dci.co.ir requests that you approve the following: subscribe XXXXXXXXXX Imami@www.dci.co.ir If you approve, please send a message such as the following back to Majordomo@list.pitt.edu (with the appropriate PASSWORD filled in, of course): approve PASSWORD subscribe XXXXXXXXXXXX Imami@www.dci.co.ir If you disapprove, do nothing. Thanks! Majordomo@list.pitt.edu ----- (where XXXXXXXXXXXX is the name of your list). I checked the incoming control messages for this requester. He appears to have subscribed to every mailing list on our server. Now maybe he just likes getting e-mail. But he subscribed to some lists I created to detect this sort of activity -- lists which serve no other purpose. So we'll want to keep alert. If there appears to be another attack on the server, I'll need to hear from YOU ASAP! Please call the HELP DESK and file a ticket if you see the sort of attack we experienced back in December and January. The number for the help desk is 412-624-HELP (412-624-4357). I can block this sort of attack quickly if I'm notified in time. Otherwise, we may just have a "newbie" who doesn't realize just how much e-mail he's in store for. Or the account in Iran has been broken into and someone is pulling a prank on them. In any case, if you have a closed list, you should consider if you want to add this address given the circumstances. If you don't have a closed list, you may want to consider removing him and/or closing your list. I intend upon contacting the address in question and inquiring about this activity. I'll contact not only the user in question but the postmaster at the site in case the account has been compromised. Terry J. Wood Postmaster, etc. Network Services University of Pittsburgh -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:33:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:32:41 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:32:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:30:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:30:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:30:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from snickers (ehdup-u-16.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.23.126]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:30:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001601bf7d41$90029da0$7e178e88@snickers> From: "Suzanne Atkinson" To: References: <000c01bf7bcc$541880a0$36178e88@snickers> <003e01bf7d3b$d3bd3c40$1b0cfad1@pavilion> Subject: Re: W-EMED Case Studies Wanted Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:31:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF7D17.A53E3320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF7D17.A53E3320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you wouldn't mind sharing them with me, perhaps I could present them = in a 'problem solving' way for our group...that's the way we do many of = our small group cases. In any case, I'd be interested myself! You can = either email the text or attach a document of you have them already = written. =20 Thanks! Suzanne ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Doc Thomas=20 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 8:50 AM Subject: Re: W-EMED Case Studies Wanted Ms.Atkinson,I may have a few on Grand Canyon rescues/w.e.t. but they = aren't written in any interactive form...just stories of real life = medical emergencies/tx...I was doctor at GC Doc ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF7D17.A53E3320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =FF=FE<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =00P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 = =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00D=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =004=00.=000=00 = =00T=00r=00a=00n=00s=00i=00t=00i=00o=00n=00a=00l=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00= l=00;=00 = 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=00w=00a=00s=00 =00d=00o=00c=00t=00o=00r=00 =00a=00t=00 = =00G=00C=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00D=00o=00c=00<=00/=00F=00O=00N=00T=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00/=00= B=00L=00O=00C=00K=00Q=00U=00O=00T=00E=00>=00<=00/=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00<= =00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF7D17.A53E3320-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:59:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:58:37 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:58:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:52:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:50:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from futureone.com (mail.futureone.com [209.250.0.14]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:50:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from pavilion (ppp2-27.wik.dialup.futureone.com [209.250.12.27]) by futureone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3+tla) with SMTP id GAA28787 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 06:58:37 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01bf7d3b$d3bd3c40$1b0cfad1@pavilion> From: "Doc Thomas" To: References: <000c01bf7bcc$541880a0$36178e88@snickers> Subject: Re: W-EMED Case Studies Wanted Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 05:50:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF7CF8.C4B827C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF7CF8.C4B827C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ms.Atkinson,I may have a few on Grand Canyon rescues/w.e.t. but they = aren't written in any interactive form...just stories of real life = medical emergencies/tx...I was doctor at GC Doc ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF7CF8.C4B827C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =FF=FE<=00!=00D=00O=00C=00T=00Y=00P=00E=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =00P=00U=00B=00L=00I=00C=00 = =00"=00-=00/=00/=00W=003=00C=00/=00/=00D=00T=00D=00 =00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =004=00.=000=00 = =00T=00r=00a=00n=00s=00i=00t=00i=00o=00n=00a=00l=00/=00/=00E=00N=00"=00>=00= =0D=00=0A= =00<=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00<=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00t=00e=00x=00t=00/=00h=00t=00m=00= l=00;=00 = =00c=00h=00a=00r=00s=00e=00t=00=3D=00u=00n=00i=00c=00o=00d=00e=00"=00 = =00h=00t=00t=00p=00-=00e=00q=00u=00i=00v=00=3D=00C=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00= t=00-=00T=00y=00p=00e=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00M=00E=00T=00A=00 = =00c=00o=00n=00t=00e=00n=00t=00=3D=00"=00M=00S=00H=00T=00M=00L=00 = =005=00.=000=000=00.=002=007=002=002=00.=002=008=000=000=00"=00 = =00n=00a=00m=00e=00=3D=00G=00E=00N=00E=00R=00A=00T=00O=00R=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00<=00/=00S=00T=00Y=00L=00E=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00/=00H=00E=00A=00D=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00B=00O=00D=00Y=00 = =00b=00g=00C=00o=00l=00o=00r=00=3D=00#=00d=008=00d=000=00c=008=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00<=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00F=00O=00N=00T=00 = =00s=00i=00z=00e=00=3D=004=00>=00M=00s=00.=00A=00t=00k=00i=00n=00s=00o=00= n=00,=00I=00 =00m=00a=00y=00 =00h=00a=00v=00e=00 =00a=00 =00f=00e=00w=00 = =00o=00n=00 =00G=00r=00a=00n=00d=00 =00C=00a=00n=00y=00o=00n=00 = =00r=00e=00s=00c=00u=00e=00s=00/=00w=00.=00e=00.=00t=00.=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00b=00u=00t=00 =00t=00h=00e=00y=00 =00a=00r=00e=00n=00'=00t=00 = =00w=00r=00i=00t=00t=00e=00n=00 =00i=00n=00 =00a=00n=00y=00 = =00i=00n=00t=00e=00r=00a=00c=00t=00i=00v=00e=00 = =00f=00o=00r=00m=00.=00.=00.=00j=00u=00s=00t=00 = =00s=00t=00o=00r=00i=00e=00s=00 =00o=00f=00 =00r=00e=00a=00l=00 = =00l=00i=00f=00e=00 =00=0D=00=0A= =00m=00e=00d=00i=00c=00a=00l=00 = =00e=00m=00e=00r=00g=00e=00n=00c=00i=00e=00s=00/=00t=00x=00.=00.=00.=00I=00= =00w=00a=00s=00 =00d=00o=00c=00t=00o=00r=00 =00a=00t=00 = =00G=00C=00&=00n=00b=00s=00p=00;=00 = =00D=00o=00c=00<=00/=00F=00O=00N=00T=00>=00<=00/=00D=00I=00V=00>=00<=00/=00= B=00O=00D=00Y=00>=00<=00/=00H=00T=00M=00L=00>=00=0D=00=0A= =00 ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BF7CF8.C4B827C0-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: R From: Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP X-RS-ID: X-RS-Flags: 0,0,1,1,0,0,0 X-RS-Sigset: 2 To: greg_boyd@med.unc.edu Subject: (Fwd) Return Receipt (displayed) - Re: W-EMED Case Studies Wan Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:37:22 -0500 Please tell your email program not to send messages as this back to lists that have hundreds of participants. It wastes bandwidth, and it annoys the users. Thanks for participating in the wilderness-emergency-medicine list. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:28:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Stephen G Boyd Jr." To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Return Receipt (displayed) - Re: W-EMED Case Studies Wanted Send reply to: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a return receipt for the mail that you sent to Stephen G Boyd Jr. . Note: this return receipt only acknowledges that the message was displayed on the recipient's machine. There is no guarantee that the content has been read or understood. ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:51:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:50:49 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:50:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:50:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:48:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from harvest1.harvestcomm.net (mailserver1.hcom.net [206.61.140.36]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:48:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ras1-17.hcom.net (ras1-17.hcom.net [208.33.71.17]) by harvest1.harvestcomm.net (NTMail 5.02.0001/AX0250.00.e2ec0ed8) with ESMTP id ovnpabaa for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:47:52 -0600 Message-ID: <38B07DDE.9C0F1891@enid.com> Disposition-Notification-To: "Kim D. Richards" Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:50:54 -0800 From: "Kim D. Richards" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Suzanne Atkinson CC: Kim Richards Subject: Re: W-EMED Case Studies Wanted References: <000c01bf7bcc$541880a0$36178e88@snickers> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A1326CB49676019262FBF66A" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A1326CB49676019262FBF66A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3B2ACC748B06C022859D71A8" --------------3B2ACC748B06C022859D71A8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Suzanne, My name is Kim Richards. Are you looking for case studies on a purely medical basis, or on a total incident mitigation format; i.e.. Emergency notification, SAR initiation, Pt. rescue/stabalization, Pt. packaging, extrication/transport, and ongoing medical care until a definitive medical facility is reached ? May I suggest that you contact the National Cave Rescue Commission (NCRC) section of the National Speleological Society (NSS). They have detailed accounts of rescues in many situations. They also publish a news letter called "The Muddy Litter Letter" which outlines some of the most recent incidents. There are many different organizations that may be able to furnish your students with case studies and scenarios that are close to your area. The Eastern Region of the NCRC provides some excellent training opportunities. I will provide you with some Links to these web sites that should contain some info and contacts that may be of some help. These may all be old news to you but, I hope they are of some assistance. Kim Richards, FF/Rescue/Medic http://www.caves.org/io/ncrc/ http://www.caves.org/io/ncrc/regions.html http://www.nasar.org/ http://home.netcom.com/~cheazlit/self_rescue/ ( Has many excellent links) Suzanne Atkinson wrote: > I am looking for informative, interesting wilderness medicine cases > that can be solved by 1st & 2nd years in an interactive format, as > opposed to just another lunchtime lecture. --------------3B2ACC748B06C022859D71A8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Suzanne,
    My name is Kim Richards. Are you looking for case studies on a purely medical basis, or on a total incident mitigation format; i.e.. Emergency notification, SAR initiation, Pt. rescue/stabalization, Pt. packaging, extrication/transport, and ongoing medical care until a definitive medical facility is reached ?
    May I suggest that you contact the National Cave Rescue Commission (NCRC) section of the National Speleological Society (NSS). They have detailed accounts of rescues in many situations.
They also publish a news letter called "The Muddy Litter Letter" which outlines some of the most recent incidents. There are many different organizations that may be able to furnish your students with case studies and scenarios that are close to your area. The Eastern Region of the NCRC provides some excellent training opportunities. I will provide you with some Links to these web sites that should contain some info and contacts that may be of some help.
    These may all be old news to you but, I hope they are of some assistance.

Kim Richards, FF/Rescue/Medic

http://www.caves.org/io/ncrc/
http://www.caves.org/io/ncrc/regions.html
http://www.nasar.org/
http://home.netcom.com/~cheazlit/self_rescue/     ( Has many excellent links)
 
 

Suzanne Atkinson wrote:

I am looking for informative, interesting wilderness medicine cases that can be solved by 1st & 2nd years in an interactive format, as opposed to just another lunchtime lecture.
--------------3B2ACC748B06C022859D71A8-- --------------A1326CB49676019262FBF66A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="firehopp.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Kim D. Richards Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="firehopp.vcf" begin:vcard n:Richards;Kim D. tel;pager:(580) 548-9897 tel;cell:(580) 554-2030 tel;home:(580) 233-3969 tel;work:(580) 234-0446 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:PFFE/IAFF Local #3722;Enid Fire Dept. adr:;;P.O. Box 5586;Enid;OK.;73702; version:2.1 email;internet:firehopp@enid.com title:President note:Cell Phone has Messaging/Paging fn:Kim D. Richards end:vcard --------------A1326CB49676019262FBF66A-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:00:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:00:00 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:00:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:59:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:58:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from snickers (ehdup-t-44.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.23.54]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:58:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000c01bf7bcc$541880a0$36178e88@snickers> From: "Suzanne Atkinson" To: Subject: W-EMED Case Studies Wanted Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:00:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF7BA2.65FD9820" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF7BA2.65FD9820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking for informative, interesting wilderness medicine cases that = can be solved by 1st & 2nd years in an interactive format, as opposed to = just another lunchtime lecture. Our school has recently started a = student chapter of the wilderness medical society and I am looking for = ways to integrate more medicine related topics in addition to the = wilderness topics we've been having presentations and slide shows on. Feel free to email me personally if you know of a good location or = source, or if you have an interesting case of your own you'd like to = share. (I know that the WMS journal has case studies in each issue, = but I don't have access to more than jsut 2 or 3 of the journals). I = have also run across one high altitude site with case studies, but I = would like a variety of cases. Thanks for your help. Feel free to check our organization's web site to = see what actvities we've been doing so far: www.pitt.edu/~mswms Thank you, suzanne Atkinson MS-II University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF7BA2.65FD9820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am looking for informative, = interesting=20 wilderness medicine cases that can be solved by 1st & 2nd years in = an=20 interactive format, as opposed to just another lunchtime lecture.  = Our=20 school has recently started a student chapter of the wilderness medical = society=20 and I am looking for ways to integrate more medicine related topics in = addition=20 to the wilderness topics we've been having presentations and slide shows = on.
 
Feel free to email me personally if you = know of=20 a good location or source, or if you have an interesting case = of your=20 own you'd like to share.  (I know that the WMS journal has case = studies in=20 each issue, but I don't have access to more than jsut 2 or 3 of the=20 journals).  I have also run across one high altitude site with case = studies, but I would like a variety of cases.
 
Thanks for your help.  Feel free = to check our=20 organization's web site to see what actvities we've been doing so=20 far:
 
www.pitt.edu/~mswms
 
Thank you,
suzanne Atkinson
MS-II
University of Pittsburgh School of=20 Medicine
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BF7BA2.65FD9820-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:55:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:55:12 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:55:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:54:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.idec.net (root@mail.idecnet.com [194.179.48.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:49:55 -0500 (EST) From: msanchez@chmi.rcanaria.es Received: from casiopea (acceso-7b.lpa.idec.net [212.64.161.124]) by mail.idec.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA01866 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:49:48 GMT Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:52:30 GMT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED 6th Internet World Congress of Biomedical Sciences Message-Id: <38AB1C1E3D9.3A07MSANCHEZ@192.168.0.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Becky! ver 1.25.04 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-Printable to 8bit by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu id QAA07474 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu ******************************************** INABIS 2000 6th Internet World Congress of Biomedical Sciences 14th to 25th, February, 2000 http://www.uclm.es/inabis2000 ******************************************** __________________________________________ - CONGRES IS TAKING PLACE THESE DAYS - __________________________________________ CONTENTS 1 Background 2 Congress CD-ROM - Free!!! 3 Main Dates: Invited Symposia and Poster Discussion. On-line Sessions **************** 1 BACKGROUND **************** We are sending you information about the 6th Internet World Congress of Biomedical Sciences (INABIS 2000), that is taking place in Internet from 14th to 25th, February, 2000 at http://www.uclm.es/inabis2000 INABIS annual Congress is one of the largest scientific conferences ever to take place exclusively in cyberspace. Due to the novel characteristics of this event, we would like to offer this list's members the possibility to participate in this Congress. The Internet World Congress of Biomedical Sciences is an international meeting annually organized by the Internet Association for Biomedical Sciences (INABIS). ///////////////////////////////////// 2 CONGRESS CD-ROM ///////////////////////////////////// Visitors to INABIS 2000 Congress will receive CD-ROM Proceedings (free!!!) if they participate actively in the congress in on-line sessions or Discussion boards. ************* 3 MAIN DATES AND TOPICS: ON LINE SESSIONS ************* AREA IV: NEW TECHNOLOGIES On line Session: February 16th, 5-7 pm GMT AREA VI: SURGICAL SESSIONS On line Session: February 17th, 5-7 pm GMT AREA I: NEUROSCIENCES On-line Session: February 18th, 5-7 pm GMT AREA II: BASIC SCIENCES On line Session: February 21th, 5-7 pm GMT AREA VII: PREVENTIVE AND OCUPATIONAL On line Session: February 22th, 5-7 pm GMT AREA III: STRUCTURAL SCIENCES On line Session: February 23th, 5-7 pm GMT AREA V: CLINICAL SESSIONS On line Session: February 24th, 5-7 pm GMT ============================== AREA IV On line Session: February 16th, 5-7 pm GMT ------------ Health Informatics ----- Quality of Health Information in Internet Chair: Dr. Ahmad Risk (Internet Healthcare Coalition) risk@cybermedic.org United States Telework in Medicine ----- Chair: Eng. Daniel Rincón Prada (Universidad Politécnica de Valencia) daniel.rincon@bigfoot.com Spain Applying Information Technology in Medicine ------- Chair: Dr. Kevin M. McNeill (University of Arizona ) kevin@radiology.arizona.edu United States Co-Chair: Dr. Elizabeth Krupinski (University of Arizona ) kevin@radiology.arizona.edu United States Co-Chair: Dr. Krisellen Maloney (University of Arizona ) kevin@radiology.arizona.edu United States Poster Session Medical Electronics & Engineering Poster Session New Technology Poster Session Radiology & Nuclear Medicine Poster Session =================================== AREA VI On line Session: February 17th, 5-7 pm GMT Anesthesiology ----- Advances and Controversies in Acute Pain Management Chair: Dr Concepción Pérez Hernández (Hospital Universitario de La Princesa) med009566@nacom.es Spain Co-Chair: Dr Ana Reguera Espelet (Hospital Universitario de La Princesa) urquijo@maptel.es Spain Co-Chair: Dr Jose Luis Martinez Chacón (Hospital Universitario de La Princesa) jluismar@ctv.es Spain Dermatology Poster Session Intensive Care Poster Session Obstetrics & Gynecology Poster Session Odontology Poster Session Ophthalmology ------- Three-dimensional ophthalmic ultrasonography Chair: Dr. Janos Nemeth (Semmelweis Medical University) nj@szem1.sote.hu Hungary Poster Session Oral & Maxilofacial Surgery Poster Session Orthopedics & Traumatology Poster Session Otorhinolaryngology Poster Session Plastic Surgery ---------- Orthopaedics and extremities reconstruction surgery Chair: Dr. ANGEL FUEYO LORENTE (HOSPITAL CENTRAL DE ASTURIAS) FUEYO98@INTERBOOK.NET Spain Co-Chair: Dr. DANIEL CAMPORRO FERNANDEZ (HOSPITAL CENTRAL DE ASTURIAS) dcamporro@interbook.net SpainPoster Session Transplantation -------- Tissue Engineering 2000 Chair: Professor Vivek Dixit (UCLA School of Medicine) vdixit@mednet.ucla.edu United States Co-Chair: Dr. Yukinobu takimoto (UCLA School of Medicine) dixitlab@mednet.ucla.edu United States Urology Poster Session ============================== AREA I On-line Session: February 18th, 5-7 pm GMT Neuroscience ----------- Recent advances in the neurobiology of drug addiction Chair: Dr. Luis F. Alguacil (Univ. San Pablo CEU) laguacil@ceu.es Spain Co-Chair: Dr Carmen Pérez-García (Univ. San Pablo CEU) capegar@ceu.es Spain ---------- Excitatory amino acid receptors: the present and the future Chair: Dr Mikhail Soloviev (Medical Research Council) phar0079@ermine.ox.ac.uk United Kingdom --------- Protein regulation of neurotransmitter receptors. From synaptic plasticity to neurotoxicity Chair: Dr Daniel Rodriguez-Ithurralde (Instituto de Investigaciones Biológicas Clemente Estable (IIBCE)) drit@iibce.edu.uy Uruguay Co-Chair: Chem. Eng. Silvia Olivera Bravo (Instituto de Investigaciones Biológicas Clemente Estable (IIBCE)) bravos@iibce.edu.uy Uruguay Co-Chair: Dr Jeremy Martin Henley (Bristol University) j.m.henley@bristol.ac.uk United Kingdom ---------- Reactive Oxygen Species and Neurodegenerative Diseases Chair: Dr. Richard M. Kostrzewa (East Tennessee State University) Kostrzew@ETSU.Edu United States Co-Chair: Pr. Jacques Callebert (Hôpital Lariboisière) jacques.callebert@lrb.ap-hop-paris.fr France --------- Testing the dopamine hypothesis of Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD): hypo or hyper? Chair: Dr. Adolfo Gustavo Sadile (II University of Naples. ) agsadile@tin.it Italy Co-Chair: Dr. Joseph A. Sergeant (Free Univ.Amsterdam) JA.Sergeant@psy.vu.nl Netherlands Co-Chair: Dr. Mary Solanto mary_solanto-gardner@mssm.edu United States ------- Modulation of activity and function of aminergic neurons in the brain Chair: Dr. Athineos Philippu (University of Innsbruck) Athineos.Philippou@uibk.ac.at Austria Poster Session Neurology Poster Session Neurosurgery ---------- Pathogenesis of vasospasm after subarachnoid hemorrhage Chair: Dr. R. Loch Macdonald (University of Chicago Medical Center) lmacdona@surgery.bsd.uchicago.edu United States Poster Session Psychiatry ------------ Behavioral Effects of Cannabinoids and Alcohol Chair: Dr. John Salamone (University of Connecticut) salamone@psych.psy.uconn.edu United States Co-Chair: Dr. Merce Correa (Universitat Jaume I) correa@psb.uji.es Spain Poster Session ====================================== AREA II On line Session: February 21th, 5-7 pm GMT Biochemistry & Physiology ------------ Iron Metabolism Chair: Dr. Des Richardson (Heart Research Institute) d.richardson@hri.org.au Australia Co-Chair: Dr. Prem Ponka () mdpp@musica.mcgill.ca Canada Poster Session Cell Biology & Cytology ---------- Physiological and pathological implications of semicarbazide-sensitive amine oxidase (SSAO), also known as a vascular adhesion molecule (VAP-1) Chair: Dr. Peter H. Yu (Professor University of Saskatchewan) yup@sask.usask.ca Canada Molecular basis of K channels in vascular smooth muscle cells and endothelial cells Chair: Dr. Rui Wang (University of Saskatchewan, Canada) wangrui@duke.usask Canada Molecular Mechanism of Endothelial Cell Mechanoreception Chair: Dr. Peter I. Lelkes (Univ. Wisconsin Medical School ) pilelkes@facstaff.wisc.edu United States Poster Session Biophysics Poster Session Immunology Poster Session Pharmacology ----------- Free Radicals and Drug-Induced Neurotoxicity Chair: Dr. Jean Lud Cadet (NIDA, IRP) jcadet@intra.nida.nih.gov United States The Therapeutic Potential of Phase II Enzyme Induction Chair: Dr. Bernhard H.J. Juurlink (University of Saskatchewan) juurlink@duke.usask.ca Canada Poster Session Reproduction Sciences Poster Session Toxicology Poster Session ===================== AREA VII On line Session: February 22th, 5-7 pm GMT Occupational Health ------------- Medical Problems of Chemical Safety Chair: Professor Iu. P. Tikhomirov (Nyzhny Novgorod Research Institute of Hygiene and Occupational Pathology) ipz@sandy.ru Russian Federation Poster Session Hygiene, Public Health & Preventive Medicine Poster Session Physical Therapeutics & Rehabilitation ------------ The role of FES assisted movements in the rehabilitation of motor impaired persons Chair: Dr Michel Ladouceur (Institute of Electronic Systems, Aalborg University) mla@smi.auc.dk Denmark ----------------- Complex rehabilitation, neurology and psychiatry hand in hand Chair: Res. Assoc. Duska Meh (Institute for Rehabilitation, Republic of Slovenia) duska.meh@mail.ir-rs.si Slovenia Poster Session ======================== AREA III On line Session: February 23th, 5-7 pm GMT Anatomy & Histology Poster Session Bioanthropology & Paleopathology -------------- Bioanthropology, "When the Deads tell us your Story" Chair: Ernesto León Rodríguez Flórez (University of Cauca.) antropos@ucauca.edu.co Colombia Co-Chair: Astrid Lorena Perafán Ledezma (Foundation for Bioanthropological Research FIBA.) fiba.geo@yahoo.com Colombia Forensic Sciences Poster Session Genetics & Bioinformatics -------------- Advances in Gene Therapy for Neurological Disorders Chair: Dr Nazer Qureshi (Harvard University) qureshin@helix.mgh.harvard.edu United States Co-Chair: Dr. Neil Kowall (Boston University) nkowall@bu.edu United States Pathology and Genetics of Nervous System Tumors Chair: Dr. Javier Saez Castresana (Universidad de Navarra) jscastresana@unav.es Spain Poster Session Pathology ------------ New Technologies in Pathology and Medical Imaging Chair: Dra. Ana Morillo Castro (Centro de Salud III de Puertollano) marcial@cim.es Spain Co-Chair: Dr. Marcial García Rojo (Complejo Hospitalario de Ciudad Real) marcial@cim.es Spain Co-Chair: Dr. Fernando Martin-Sanchez (Institut of Health "Carlos III") fmartin@isciii.es Spain Uropathology in human and experimental tissues ----------------- Chair: Dr. Mariano Alvira (Tumorboard.com) alviram@infinet.com United States Poster Session ================== AREA V On line Session: February 24th, 5-7 pm GMT Allergy & Clinical Immunology Poster Session Cardiovascular Diseases ---------------- Melatonin: the ubiquitous hormone Chair: Dr. Gregory M. Brown (University of Toronto) gregorym.brown@utoronto.ca Canada Co-Chair: Dr Shiu Fun Pang (U of Hong Kong) hrmypsf@hkucc.hku.hk China Stroke/Cerebral Vascular Physiology Chair: Prof. Dr. John H. Zhang (University of Mississippi Medical Center.) jzhang@neurosurgery.umsmed.edu United States Poster Session Endocrinology Poster Session Gastroenterology & Hepatology Poster Session Infectious Diseases Poster Session Nutrition & Diabetics Poster Session Oncology Poster Session Pediatrics & Neonatology ------------------ High risk newborn follow-up Chair: Dr. Jesús García Domínguez (Hospital Materno Infantil "10 de Octubre") jesgarc@infomed.sld.cu Cuba Co-Chair: Dra. Teresa Cueto Guerreiro (Facultad de Ciencias Mèdicas) jacru@infomed.sld.cu CubaPoster Session Respiratory & Pulmonary Medicine Poster Session ================================ We are looking forward to meeting you at the Congress site: Dr. Marcial Garcia Rojo INABIS 2000 President Investigation Unit Complejo Hospitalario de Ciudad Real Avda. Pio XII s/n 13002 Ciudad Real SPAIN Phone. 926 213444 Ext. 184 Fax 926 210298 maito:inabis@uclm.es Further information: see http://www.uclm.es/inabis2000 ******************************************** INABIS 2000 6th Internet World Congress of Biomedical Sciences 14th to 25th, February, 2000 http://www.uclm.es/inabis2000 ******************************************** Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.4) ID ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:13:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:12:28 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:12:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:10:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.66]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:09:39 -0500 (EST) From: Iridin5@aol.com Received: from Iridin5@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id h.4c.1a29456 (7543) for ; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:09:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4c.1a29456.25d7501e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:09:02 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED AD:Family Reunion T Shirts & More To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu We are a very small nonprofit charitable organization that trains Assistance Dogs & sponsors Visiting Dogs. We need patches & shirts w/our logo. Send info. please. Trained Loving Companion Assistance Dogs,Inc 17 Whitney St Jefferson MA 01522 Barbara Horsfall Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.4) ID ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:27:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:26:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:24:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip11.halifax9.dialup.canada.psi.net ([154.5.34.11] helo=advnture.istar.ca) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 12F7FV-00023f-00 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:11:34 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20000130230337.009efa40@istar.ca> Message-Id: <4.1.20000130230337.009efa40@istar.ca> X-Sender: advnture@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:04:25 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Blair & Angela Doyle Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" In-Reply-To: <74.128a953.25c36049@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu On route by Friday................... Blair At 04:12 PM 28/01/00 -0500, you wrote: >Blair, >My address is >Bru Randall >324 Questend Ave. >Pittsburgh, PA 15228 > >One will be sufficient. Please let me know the cost. >Thanks, >Bru >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.4) ID ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:48:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:45:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:45:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:45:27 -0500 (EST) From: Trailblazer75@aol.com Received: from Trailblazer75@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.8.) id h.4a.f6361a (7776) for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:44:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4a.f6361a.25c59a50@aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:44:48 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 44 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Sorry, see that I forgot to put in the URL of the web site for the search I described. It is called the "Internet Jump Station", and is well worth bookmarking. http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/jumps.html I have also read a little further on the subject. The American Red Cross is involved in the development. It apparently is not on the market as yet, and is going through the approval process for the FDA. Seems it could be released this year, but probably not. It will be expensive, at least at first. Much depends on the availability of low cost clotting factors. When I read the description of the bandage, my first thoughts were of possible allergic reactions should the blood factors on the bandage get into patient's blood. This appears to be one of the concerns of the FDA. A report containing the above info appeared in the May 17, 1999, Washington Post and is quite complete about the Vernaid Bandage and some other related topics. The URL is: http://xent.ics.uci.edu/FoRK-archive/apr99/0634.html Looks like we will have to wait for the bandage. If you locate later information, please advise. Hope this helps! Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.4) ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:58:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:58:06 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:58:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:57:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:55:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:55:32 -0500 (EST) From: Trailblazer75@aol.com Received: from Trailblazer75@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.8.) id h.ea.14cc058 (3866) for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:54:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:54:57 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 44 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Hi, I had heard something about it, but until you asked had not dug into topic. If you go to the following megs search engine which is maintained by the University of Illinois and when in there select dogpile as a multi search, and search for Vernaid Bandage you will find many references to it. Price I don't know, or where to get it, but if you read through the search results, I am sure you will find out. This is a portion of how one of the listings described it: " loaded with dried, highly concentrated blood-clotting > proteins that can halt even severe arterial bleeding > within two minutes. > > The four-inch-square bandage contains the blood > proteins fibrinogen and thrombin in dried form. When > they come in contact with blood, they combine to form > fibrin and create an extremely strong scab that becomes a > glue-like seal over the wound. When held against > bleeding tissue, the bandage will halt the hemorrhage. . . ." Please let me know what you find out. It sounds fascinating George Farrell > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.4) ID ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:07:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:06:38 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:06:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:06:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:03:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f166.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.166]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:03:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 23255 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 2000 02:03:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20000129020313.23254.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 203.37.22.95 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:03:13 PST X-Originating-IP: [203.37.22.95] From: "Mark Heyink" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED WEMT courses Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:03:13 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu I am an Australian who will be working in the States from May - September with HIOBS. I will then look at completing a WEMT prior to working elsewhere or returning home. Is anyone out there offering such a course in October? Please email me at mheyink@hotmail.com with details - thank you. Mark Heyink mheyink@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.4) ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:45:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.3) ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:44:48 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:44:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:42:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:42:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from fuji.cate.org (fuji.cate.org [205.167.174.193]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:42:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from celery (calnet14-133.gtecablemodem.com [207.175.237.133]) by fuji.cate.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA00947 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:42:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000129023806.00a339d0@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: telemedic@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:41:24 -0800 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Fred Wu Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMT courses In-Reply-To: <20000129020313.23254.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Mark, You might want to check with: WMI of NOLS (www.nols.edu) Wilderness Medical Associates (www.wildmed.com) SOLO (www.stonehearth.com) These are the "big" three programs that teach wilderness medicine in the States. Fred At 01:03 PM 1/29/00 -0500, you wrote: >I am an Australian who will be working in the States from May - September >with HIOBS. I will then look at completing a WEMT prior to working >elsewhere or returning home. Is anyone out there offering such a course in >October? >Please email me at mheyink@hotmail.com with details - thank you. > >Mark Heyink >mheyink@hotmail.com >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.4) ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:12:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:11:46 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:11:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:11:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:11:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f111.hotmail.com [216.32.181.111]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 55424 invoked by uid 0); 29 Jan 2000 09:10:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20000129091034.55423.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.159.112.173 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:10:34 PST X-Originating-IP: [206.159.112.173] From: "colleen argyle" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED seeking information Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:10:34 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Hello, My name is Colleen Argyle, and I am a student at Boise State University. I am currently in the health sceince program and I an in EMT training. I am currently getting involed with the local search and rescue. I would like some information on your services. I would like to be a wilderness medic of some sort. I have been climbing for four years as well as backpacking and varouis other outdoor activites and I know that one of these days I would love to be a wilderness medic, so that is the kind of information I would like. Colleen Argyle 3085 N. Mitchell Boise, ID 83704 Thank you very much for your time and effort. Colleen Argyle :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Return-Path: Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by imap.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisimap-7.2.2.4) ID ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:22:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:21:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:19:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:13:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.6]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:13:30 -0500 (EST) From: Caverbru@aol.com Received: from Caverbru@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.8.) id h.74.128a953 (3865) for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:12:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <74.128a953.25c36049@aol.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:12:41 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 45 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Blair, My address is Bru Randall 324 Questend Ave. Pittsburgh, PA 15228 One will be sufficient. Please let me know the cost. Thanks, Bru Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:24:57 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:24:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:24:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:21:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.picusnet.com (mail.picusnet.com [207.7.90.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:21:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from default [207.7.91.124] by mail.picusnet.com (SMTPD32-5.05) id AEA76A3B014C; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:20:55 -0500 Message-ID: <001101bf63ce$d8793c60$7c5b07cf@default> From: "GATORDOC" To: References: <000001bf6351$21754ea0$a041a1d1@u6b2m4> Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:17:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 35127424 0 1 P79130.CNM hey Vern, what about the presidentials? Reply to ordoc@Picusnet.com ----Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vern Miller" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 8:17 AM Subject: RE: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" > Bru, you're killing me. > > The only "Vernaid" that I can offer is a good glass of Single Malt Scotch > after a 3 pitch waterfall or skiing some fresh powder! > > > Vern Miller, NREMT-P > Chairman > Allegheny Mountain Rescue Group > Pittsburgh, Pa > Millervh@msx.upmc.edu > Pager (412) 272-3263 > http://www.asrc.net/amrg > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > [mailto:owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu] On Behalf Of > Blair & Angela Doyle > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 8:16 AM > To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" > > Bru, > > No fun intended, just good healthy learning.................and who is the > chairman of AMRG anyway? Does he sell these things? If so what is his Email? > > I am just wondering where I can get my hands on these. After a course you > are left with a book to further refer to. Besides the novelty, if a student > wants to have another 20 suggestions on how to improvise/ configure " the > other " triangular bandages they have with them in the woods (or anything > else they might have). Would you agree it is courteous and responsible to > provide them with their request? ( Interesting word 'eh Bru, courtesy! ). > Having this might encourage a student " after a course " to further > re-enforce what was learned and practiced in the often short span of a > program. If they are using it for directions while treating then they > missed taking the program! > > Thanks very much Bernie, I will check with SJA. I used to instruct for them > awhile back, and I believe one of my counter parts may of handed it to me > one day. When I began teaching Wilderness FA programs I would bring it out > as more suggestions on how to wrap injuries. I use this bandage as a sort > of "Wilderness Overhead" on a tree during practice sessions. > > Hey, may be a great marketing idea for Instructors........................ > Triangular Bandage "Tree Overheads" for teaching around the campfire with!! > :-> > > Thanks for your help, > > > > > > At 10:33 PM 19/01/00 -0500, you wrote: > >Are you serious or are you making fun of the chariman of AMRG? > >What is the point of directions that can't be seen as soon as you start to > >configure the bandage for use? > >Seems to me that it would make more sense to learn how to use a triangular > >bandage than to worry about finding one with the directions printed on it. > >On the other hand it might make a cool head bandana. > >Just my observation. > >Bru Randall > >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > > > > > Blair Doyle > Wilderness and Remote First Aid Instructor Trainer > Medical First Response Instructor > Canadian Red Cross Society, Nova Scotia Region > 902-434-9122 h 902-458-8665 pgr > Email: advnture@istar.ca > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:31:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:31:02 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:31:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:30:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:28:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:28:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip1.halifax9.dialup.canada.psi.net ([154.5.34.1] helo=advnture.istar.ca) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 12BUhj-0002cw-00 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:25:44 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20000120232017.00989d50@istar.ca> X-Sender: advnture@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:28:06 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Blair & Angela Doyle Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P62190.CNM Bru, If you don't get one from someone closer................send me your snailmail and I will get one to you. I have gained a source in my own backyard that is getting me a number of these. But I still haven't a regular supplier to purchase from though. Blair Doyle Wilderness and Remote First Aid Instructor Trainer Medical First Response Instructor Canadian Red Cross Society, Nova Scotia Region 902-434-9122 h 902-458-8665 pgr Email: advnture@istar.ca At 09:50 PM 20/01/00 -0500, you wrote: >My apologies to the list. >Many interesting and sometimes strange things show up on this list. In part, >this is because we are from very diverse backgrounds. We all have an >interest in wilderness medicine but our how's and why's may be very different. >When I saw Blair's original email I didn't know where he was coming from. >Our group chairman is named Vern and I thought that this might be some good >natured ribbing. I never thought of the idea of this being a display piece. >Thankfully Bernie's background shed light on the what and the where of this. >To those of you whom I offended, I apologize again. >To those of you who know a Vern that you want to rib, I hope I gave you a >smile. >And seriously, I would like to get a Vernaid Bandage to hang on the station >wall. >Thanks, >Bru Randall >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:54:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:54:18 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:54:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:54:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:51:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.5]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:51:27 -0500 (EST) From: Caverbru@aol.com Received: from Caverbru@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id h.ad.4baf4f (4529) for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:50:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:50:42 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P05470.CNM My apologies to the list. Many interesting and sometimes strange things show up on this list. In part, this is because we are from very diverse backgrounds. We all have an interest in wilderness medicine but our how's and why's may be very different. When I saw Blair's original email I didn't know where he was coming from. Our group chairman is named Vern and I thought that this might be some good natured ribbing. I never thought of the idea of this being a display piece. Thankfully Bernie's background shed light on the what and the where of this. To those of you whom I offended, I apologize again. To those of you who know a Vern that you want to rib, I hope I gave you a smile. And seriously, I would like to get a Vernaid Bandage to hang on the station wall. Thanks, Bru Randall Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:24:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:23:22 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:23:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:22:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:21:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from uranium.nb.net (uranium.nb.net [209.161.64.33]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:21:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 16429 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2000 14:21:44 -0000 Received: from barley-a-06.wexford.nb.net (HELO u6b2m4) (209.161.65.160) by uranium.nb.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2000 14:21:44 -0000 From: "Vern Miller" To: Subject: RE: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:17:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf6351$21754ea0$a041a1d1@u6b2m4> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000120081500.009967a0@istar.ca> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P690D0.CNM Bru, you're killing me. The only "Vernaid" that I can offer is a good glass of Single Malt Scotch after a 3 pitch waterfall or skiing some fresh powder! Vern Miller, NREMT-P Chairman Allegheny Mountain Rescue Group Pittsburgh, Pa Millervh@msx.upmc.edu Pager (412) 272-3263 http://www.asrc.net/amrg -----Original Message----- From: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu [mailto:owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu] On Behalf Of Blair & Angela Doyle Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 8:16 AM To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" Bru, No fun intended, just good healthy learning.................and who is the chairman of AMRG anyway? Does he sell these things? If so what is his Email? I am just wondering where I can get my hands on these. After a course you are left with a book to further refer to. Besides the novelty, if a student wants to have another 20 suggestions on how to improvise/ configure " the other " triangular bandages they have with them in the woods (or anything else they might have). Would you agree it is courteous and responsible to provide them with their request? ( Interesting word 'eh Bru, courtesy! ). Having this might encourage a student " after a course " to further re-enforce what was learned and practiced in the often short span of a program. If they are using it for directions while treating then they missed taking the program! Thanks very much Bernie, I will check with SJA. I used to instruct for them awhile back, and I believe one of my counter parts may of handed it to me one day. When I began teaching Wilderness FA programs I would bring it out as more suggestions on how to wrap injuries. I use this bandage as a sort of "Wilderness Overhead" on a tree during practice sessions. Hey, may be a great marketing idea for Instructors........................ Triangular Bandage "Tree Overheads" for teaching around the campfire with!! :-> Thanks for your help, At 10:33 PM 19/01/00 -0500, you wrote: >Are you serious or are you making fun of the chariman of AMRG? >What is the point of directions that can't be seen as soon as you start to >configure the bandage for use? >Seems to me that it would make more sense to learn how to use a triangular >bandage than to worry about finding one with the directions printed on it. >On the other hand it might make a cool head bandana. >Just my observation. >Bru Randall >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Blair Doyle Wilderness and Remote First Aid Instructor Trainer Medical First Response Instructor Canadian Red Cross Society, Nova Scotia Region 902-434-9122 h 902-458-8665 pgr Email: advnture@istar.ca Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:18:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.3) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:18:26 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:18:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:17:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:15:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:15:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip253.halifax9.dialup.canada.psi.net ([154.5.34.253] helo=advnture.istar.ca) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 12BHPA-0002Vp-00 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:13:40 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20000120081500.009967a0@istar.ca> X-Sender: advnture@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:15:34 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Blair & Angela Doyle Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" In-Reply-To: <8e.3cb2a5.25b7dbee@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P4BEC0.CNM Bru, No fun intended, just good healthy learning.................and who is the chairman of AMRG anyway? Does he sell these things? If so what is his Email? I am just wondering where I can get my hands on these. After a course you are left with a book to further refer to. Besides the novelty, if a student wants to have another 20 suggestions on how to improvise/ configure " the other " triangular bandages they have with them in the woods (or anything else they might have). Would you agree it is courteous and responsible to provide them with their request? ( Interesting word 'eh Bru, courtesy! ). Having this might encourage a student " after a course " to further re-enforce what was learned and practiced in the often short span of a program. If they are using it for directions while treating then they missed taking the program! Thanks very much Bernie, I will check with SJA. I used to instruct for them awhile back, and I believe one of my counter parts may of handed it to me one day. When I began teaching Wilderness FA programs I would bring it out as more suggestions on how to wrap injuries. I use this bandage as a sort of "Wilderness Overhead" on a tree during practice sessions. Hey, may be a great marketing idea for Instructors........................ Triangular Bandage "Tree Overheads" for teaching around the campfire with!! :-> Thanks for your help, At 10:33 PM 19/01/00 -0500, you wrote: >Are you serious or are you making fun of the chariman of AMRG? >What is the point of directions that can't be seen as soon as you start to >configure the bandage for use? >Seems to me that it would make more sense to learn how to use a triangular >bandage than to worry about finding one with the directions printed on it. >On the other hand it might make a cool head bandana. >Just my observation. >Bru Randall >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > > Blair Doyle Wilderness and Remote First Aid Instructor Trainer Medical First Response Instructor Canadian Red Cross Society, Nova Scotia Region 902-434-9122 h 902-458-8665 pgr Email: advnture@istar.ca Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:45:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:44:59 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:44:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:34:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:34:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.5]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:34:09 -0500 (EST) From: Caverbru@aol.com Received: from Caverbru@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id h.c0.99ca66 (4505) for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:33:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:33:32 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P02E70.CNM Thanks Bernie. Didn't mean to sound harsh. If anyone has a spare I'd love to get one to present to Vern, especially if he hasn't seen this. :)Bru Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:30:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:30:17 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:30:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:22:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:22:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from titan.tcn.net (root@titan.tcn.net [199.166.4.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:21:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from Two (comp5.tcn.net [209.135.79.5]) by titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA01298 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:15:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200001200515.AAA01298@titan.tcn.net> X-Sender: broche@titan.tcn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:27:02 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Bernie Roche Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" In-Reply-To: <388692F2.5633222A@nucleus.com> References: <200001200326.WAA19565@titan.tcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P0AAC0.CNM At 09:45 PM 1/19/00 -0700, you wrote: >Bernie, > Yup.. I think your guess is right! [snip] > But.. you know.. I'm with the others.. why wouldn't you learn to use it >first.. instead of reading the directions when you need to bandage a patient. >Lana Berrington, BSc BA EMT-A >Calgary, AB Hi, Lana: I agree that learning how is best, but I suspect that product was made for first aid kits placed in public locations for use (possibly) by persons with little or no training. But I must jump in and tell Blair that he should disregard Bru's rather harsh tone. Blair, Bru is one of the finest people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing, so I assume someone put itching powder in his shorts earlier today... And Bru, maybe we could start a new trend here...a "Vernaid" bandage named after Vern, a Conover-Cruiser named after Keith's Range Rover, a Scelza/Pizza named for Don, ....oh, hell, how do I get my foot out of my big mouth this time???????? Best Wishes, Bernie Roche, RN, BScN, W-EMT, OSJ WEMSI Web Site Administrator http://www.wemsi.org/ broche@tcn.net Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:48:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:48:17 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:48:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:46:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:46:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from vop.nucleus.com (vop.nucleus.com [207.34.93.23]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:45:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from nucleus.com (unverified [207.34.65.9]) by vop.nucleus.com (Vircom SMTPRS 4.1.180) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:45:58 -0700 Message-ID: <388692F2.5633222A@nucleus.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:45:38 -0700 From: Lana Berrington X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-compaq (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" References: <200001200326.WAA19565@titan.tcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P23920.CNM Bernie, Yup.. I think your guess is right! I did a VERY SHORT stint of volunteer work with the local St. John Ambulance Brigade.. they had one hanging up on the wall that fit just that description - They were using it as a wall decoration and It was my impression that is what they were made for. The one on their wall had the SJA logo all over it (malteese cross logo) and a picture of a smiling uniformed brigade member too. But.. you know.. I'm with the others.. why wouldn't you learn to use it first.. instead of reading the directions when you need to bandage a patient. I used to be a member of a first response team.. I made darned sure that ALL of the printed directions for all of our equipment was no where near the trauma kits.. (ie: the pieces of paper that come with all the laerdal collars). I'm sure it dosn't instill confidance in our patients to be reading a "how to" manual in front of them :-) just my $0.02CAD -.. hm.. I think 2cents in canadian funds comes out to .94 of a cent in USD Take Care Lana Berrington, BSc BA EMT-A Calgary, AB Bernie Roche wrote: > At 10:52 PM 1/19/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Hello, > > I have in front of me a triangular bandage called " The Vernaid > >Bandage". It has several drawings and descriptions of how to bandage / or > >use the triangular right on the Bandage. To further describe, it's light > >yellow cotton, the drawings are black and has: > >"Registered Design No. 710438" > >"Approved by Sir James Cantlie K.B.E., F.R.C.S." on the bottom right hand > >corner, > >and "Made In England" on the left corner. It has " V&Co LTD "in a cross on > >the top. > > > >I being explicit because no-one on the planet seems to know anything about > >where these came from. I have been through Weston's, Robinson's, and Smith/ > >Nephew and they pass me on to one another! I am looking for it as alot of > >my course participants are requesting one when I show it in courses. > > > >Does anyone know anything about who sells these?? > > > >Thanks a bunch, > > > >Blair Doyle > > Hi: > > My guess would be that it was made in England for the Saint John Ambulance > Association or Brigade. The cross on top is most likely a Maltese cross, > similar to the eight-pointed cross seen on firemen's badges. > > The letters after Dr. Cantlie's name signify Knight of the British Empire ( > a VERY high honour), and Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons. > > Best Wishes, > > Bernie Roche, RN, BScN, W-EMT, OSJ > WEMSI Web Site Administrator > > http://www.wemsi.org/ > broche@tcn.net > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:35:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.3) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:34:30 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:34:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:33:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:33:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from titan.tcn.net (root@titan.tcn.net [199.166.4.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:33:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from Two (comp49.tcn.net [209.135.79.49]) by titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA19565 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:26:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200001200326.WAA19565@titan.tcn.net> X-Sender: broche@titan.tcn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:38:14 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Bernie Roche Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000119225037.00991b20@istar.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P4F400.CNM At 10:52 PM 1/19/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > I have in front of me a triangular bandage called " The Vernaid >Bandage". It has several drawings and descriptions of how to bandage / or >use the triangular right on the Bandage. To further describe, it's light >yellow cotton, the drawings are black and has: >"Registered Design No. 710438" >"Approved by Sir James Cantlie K.B.E., F.R.C.S." on the bottom right hand >corner, >and "Made In England" on the left corner. It has " V&Co LTD "in a cross on >the top. > >I being explicit because no-one on the planet seems to know anything about >where these came from. I have been through Weston's, Robinson's, and Smith/ >Nephew and they pass me on to one another! I am looking for it as alot of >my course participants are requesting one when I show it in courses. > >Does anyone know anything about who sells these?? > >Thanks a bunch, > >Blair Doyle Hi: My guess would be that it was made in England for the Saint John Ambulance Association or Brigade. The cross on top is most likely a Maltese cross, similar to the eight-pointed cross seen on firemen's badges. The letters after Dr. Cantlie's name signify Knight of the British Empire ( a VERY high honour), and Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons. Best Wishes, Bernie Roche, RN, BScN, W-EMT, OSJ WEMSI Web Site Administrator http://www.wemsi.org/ broche@tcn.net Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:54:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:53:58 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:53:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:53:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:53:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:53:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip172.halifax9.dialup.canada.psi.net ([154.5.34.172] helo=advnture.istar.ca) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 12B7iU-0006W9-00 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:52:59 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.20000119225037.00991b20@istar.ca> X-Sender: advnture@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:52:06 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Blair & Angela Doyle Subject: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P4DD30.CNM Hello, I have in front of me a triangular bandage called " The Vernaid Bandage". It has several drawings and descriptions of how to bandage / or use the triangular right on the Bandage. To further describe, it's light yellow cotton, the drawings are black and has: "Registered Design No. 710438" "Approved by Sir James Cantlie K.B.E., F.R.C.S." on the bottom right hand corner, and "Made In England" on the left corner. It has " V&Co LTD "in a cross on the top. I being explicit because no-one on the planet seems to know anything about where these came from. I have been through Weston's, Robinson's, and Smith/ Nephew and they pass me on to one another! I am looking for it as alot of my course participants are requesting one when I show it in courses. Does anyone know anything about who sells these?? Thanks a bunch, Blair Doyle Wilderness and Remote First Aid Instructor Trainer Medical First Response Instructor Canadian Red Cross Society, Nova Scotia Region 902-434-9122 h 902-458-8665 pgr Email: advnture@istar.ca Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:35:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:34:56 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:34:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:34:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:34:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.65]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:34:22 -0500 (EST) From: Caverbru@aol.com Received: from Caverbru@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id h.8e.3cb2a5 (8392) for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:33:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8e.3cb2a5.25b7dbee@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:33:02 EST Subject: Re: W-EMED Anyone heard of: "The Vernaid Bandage??" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 32 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P4EE90.CNM Are you serious or are you making fun of the chariman of AMRG? What is the point of directions that can't be seen as soon as you start to configure the bandage for use? Seems to me that it would make more sense to learn how to use a triangular bandage than to worry about finding one with the directions printed on it. On the other hand it might make a cool head bandana. Just my observation. Bru Randall Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:36:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:34:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:31:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f89.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.89]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:31:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 28663 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jan 2000 18:30:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20000103183043.28662.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.182.198.44 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:30:43 PST X-Originating-IP: [157.182.198.44] From: "Kristie Surmick" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED recertification??? Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:30:43 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P39FD0.CNM Hi there My WFR expires in May. I am looking to get it recertified or upgrade to WEMT. Where and when in Pennsylvania can I do this. Any info would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you much, Kristie Surmick ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:55:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:54:30 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:54:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:50:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:50:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from micron (ehdup-i-14.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.184]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:50:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200001022250.RAA28595@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu> From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 17:50:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: (Fwd) RE: CST6478868ID - (Fwd) W-EMED FREE SEX, Free forever, X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu id RAA06003 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P44B30.CNM ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: abuse@hotmail.com To: Date sent: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 17:42:37 "GMT" Subject: RE: CST6478868ID - (Fwd) W-EMED FREE SEX, Free forever, forever ree! From: 203.1 Hello kconover, Thank you for your message to MSN Hotmail. With regards to the mail you received, we would want to inform you that we have closed the account you reported in accordance with the Hotmail Terms of Service (TOS). It is a strict violation of the TOS for our members to send objectionable material of any kind or nature using our service. If you wish to view our rules and regulations, please go to our TOS at http://www.hotmail.com/cgi-bin/tos.cgi Sincerely, MSN Hotmail Customer Support --- Original Message --- From: kconover+@pitt.edu To: abuse@hotmail.com Sent: 12/19/1999 6:32:43 PM Subject: (Fwd) W-EMED FREE SEX, Free forever, forever free! From: 203.1   Spam sent via your domain to an academic medicine list. Please do your best to track down this user and terminate all mail privileges. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: mbhdkp5@hotmail.com Date sent: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 19:06:12 -0500 (EST) To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED FREE SEX, Free forever, forever free! From: 203.151.51.96 Send reply to: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Ok, I'll keep this short! At the following site... http://www.geocities.com/ilovethisfreeplacex/enter.html you can download a program called Sextracker that finds you free sex on the internet, download is forever free, and free forever, no credit cards, no memberships, no hassles!. However, if you feel like spending some money, you can buy a legitimate password that would give you access to over 70,000 high quality adult sites 24/7 for a whole year (or a whole lifetime), your choice! 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To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-NAV-TimeoutProtection0: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection1: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection2: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection3: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection4: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection5: X X-NAV-TimeoutProtection6: X Received: from post-ofc09.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc09.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.57]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:43:56 -0500 (EST) From: abuse@hotmail.com Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc09.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for kconover@pop.pitt.edu; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:43:56 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail for kconover+@pitt.edu; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:43:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpecimsz01 (mail2.one.microsoft.com [207.46.140.172]) by post-ofc09.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:43:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from cpecwbc01 ([10.49.141.164]) by cpecimsz01 with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2172.1); Sat, 1 Jan 2000 09:45:29 -0800 To: Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 17:42:37 "GMT" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-mailer: AspMail 3.0 (SMTP8C0F45) Subject: =?utf-8?Q?RE: CST6478868ID - (Fwd) W-EMED FREE SEX, Free forever, forever= free! From: 203.1?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jan 2000 17:45:29.0765 (UTC) FILETIME=[FE893D50:01BF547F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu id MAA29790 X-PMFLAGS: 36176000 0 1 P1F770.CNM Hello kconover, Thank you for your message to MSN Hotmail. With regards to the mail you received, we would want to inform you that we have closed the account you reported in accordance with the Hotmail Terms of Service (TOS). It is a strict violation of the TOS for our members to send objectionable material of any kind or nature using our service. If you wish to view our rules and regulations, please go to our TOS at http://www.hotmail.com/cgi-bin/tos.cgi Sincerely, MSN Hotmail Customer Support --- Original Message --- From: kconover+@pitt.edu To: abuse@hotmail.com Sent: 12/19/1999 6:32:43 PM Subject: (Fwd) W-EMED FREE SEX, Free forever, forever free! From: 203.1   Spam sent via your domain to an academic medicine list. Please do your best to track down this user and terminate all mail privileges. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: mbhdkp5@hotmail.com Date sent: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 19:06:12 -0500 (EST) To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED FREE SEX, Free forever, forever free! From: 203.151.51.96 Send reply to: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Ok, I'll keep this short! At the following site... http://www.geocities.com/ilovethisfreeplacex/enter.html you can download a program called Sextracker that finds you free sex on the internet, download is forever free, and free forever, no credit cards, no memberships, no hassles!. However, if you feel like spending some money, you can buy a legitimate password that would give you access to over 70,000 high quality adult sites 24/7 for a whole year (or a whole lifetime), your choice! Costs start from $1 A YEAR up to $1.20 a month (for the exact same service), go to http://www.geocities.com/ilovethisfreeplacex/enter.html to see for yourself! Also a great Christmas pressent for your friends! ---- I am very sorry if you did not appreciate this email, your address was submitted from : 203.151.51.96 However, rest assured, this is a one time only email and you would never receive it again, have a wonderful year 2000 and don't forget, DRIVE SAFELY ON THE ROADS and -- End --