Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for kconover@pop.pitt.edu; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail for kconover+@pitt.edu; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Virginia.EDU by mail.virginia.edu id aa21897; 30 Jun 98 9:25 EDT Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa21890; 30 Jun 98 9:25 EDT Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-14.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.84]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806301324.JAA05651@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, PSARC.Forms.Committee@pitt.edu Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:24:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Open Letter about WEMS in PA Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu CC: EMS-L@listserv.acns.nwu.edu, asrc-bod@virginia.edu Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Precedence: bulk An Open Letter to the Pennsylvania SAR and EMS Communities --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP www.pitt.edu/~kconover 412-561- 3413 (H) [member, Board of Directors, Pennsylvania Search and Rescue Council; member, Medical Advisory Committee, Pennsylvania Emergency Health Services Council; Medical Director, Wilderness EMS Institute; Medical Director for Pennsylvania, Appalachian Search and Rescue Conference; Medical Advisor, Eastern Region, National Cave Rescue Commission] Several recent events have convinced many that now is the time to rethink wilderness/ backcountry rescue in Pennsylvania. * Searches: There were several Wilderness EMTs and wilderness rescue-trained people at the search base during several recent searches in southwest Pennsylvania. But when the find was made, this rescue/medical capacity didn't make it to the patient. * SAR Forms: The Pennsylvania Search and Rescue Council is now revising the state SAR forms packet. These are the standard for search operations in Pennsylvania, and includes a medical/evacuation plan. * Pennsylvania EMS changes: Pennsylvania EMS has a new director, Margaret Trimble. Many changes are coming to the Pennsylvania EMS system; EMS has been "moved up" a level in the state bureaucracy. And after many years, there is hope of having an organized wilderness EMS capacity within the Pennsylvania EMS system. At present, Wilderness EMS has to be outside the EMS system. See below, and the postings at www.wemsi.org, for more about the legal and legislative aspects of wilderness EMS in Pennsylvania. * Rescues: At a recent meeting of the Pennsylvania Emergency Health Services Council Medical Advisory Committee, I was chatting with Dr. Doug Kupas of Geisenger Medical Center. Doug has a strong interest in wilderness as well as "street" EMS and has been the medical director for Wilderness EMT classes in north-central PA. Geisenger's helicopter service responds several times a year to rescues in Rickett's Glen state park. Doug said that the rescue management is usually fragmented between several different agencies, with varying experience levels and wilderness rescue training. Seldom are Wilderness EMTs taking care of the patients, even though the rescues often take several hours. * WEMSI: The Wilderness EMS Institute continues its attempts to improve backcountry medical care in Pennsylvania and around the globe. WEMSI WEMT and Wilderness Command Physician classes are offered in Pennsylvania on a regular basis. WEMSI also works to develop model Wilderness EMS systems in the U.S. and other countries. Well, who knows how these are all going to come together, or what the results will be? But the synchronicity is undeniable. Wilderness rescue and wilderness EMS in Pennsylvania need to improve, and the resources and determination are coming together. What can we do? What should we do? A first step (because it's easiest): improve rescue and Wilderness EMS when a search finds someone. DCNR (Department of Conservation and Natural Resources) Rangers and PSARC (Pennsylvania Search and Rescue Council) teams work together pretty closely, and do the bulk of the searches in Pennsylvania. Together, we can make some changes for the better right now. Let's first agree on what needs to happen to make rescues and backcountry medical care work out right. And then we can make it happen during every search. The easiest way to make it happen is to (1) put the protocol on the Medical/Evacuation Plan form in the new PSARC SAR Forms Packet, and then (2) tell all search managers to use the Forms Packet. Here are some specific suggestions: * Identify Personnel: Sign-in forms will have places for "WEMT" "WEMT-P" "FTM" and "FTL" -- so we can tell who has the training we need for the rescues. * More Detailed Medical/Evacuation Plan: include the following in the Medical/Evacuation Plan protocol: * Evacuation Team TAF: "Create a Task Assignment Form for the Evacuation Team with adequate personnel, including specific names, and equipment for the task and where it is. Make sure that as personnel at Base change to update the personnel on the TAF as needed. Attach the TAF, with maps ready to mark the subject's location, to the Medical/Evacuation Plan." * Minimum Rescue Personnel: "When possible, assign two FTLs and two WEMT-Basics or better to respond with the Evacuation Team." * Stripping Base for the Evacuation Team: "If the Evacuation Team includes members of Base Staff, indicate staff members to go and who is to replace their functions:" Stripping the base isn't ideal. But it's better than not having a trained evacuation team at all, which is what's been happening recently. * Medical Direction: "Establish a link to a Wilderness Command Physician (WCP) by calling the local WEMT's WCP, or if the local WEMTs don't have a certified WCP, call WEMSI at 1-800-232-5921 and have the WEMSI WCP on call to provide medical direction to WEMTs on the evacuation team." Kenneth Brody, the EMS lawyer for the Department of Health, has ruled that backcountry care is outside the scope of the existing Pennsylvania EMS system (see the Legal Issues in Pennsylvania section of www.wemsi.org for more). Though "street" providers can provide Good Samaritan-type care in backcountry situations, it cannot be considered a regular part of their EMS scope of practice. This means that going outside their "street" protocols to provide acceptable backcountry care (e.g., reducing dislocations, giving oral fluids, giving antibiotics) is questionable. Note also that, according to the EMS law, regular Command Physicians cannot provide medical direction for backcountry patients, except as an exceptional circumstance. If they end up in court, "regular" Command Physicians providing medical direction for backcountry rescues will probably be held to national standards such as those established in the Wilderness Medical Society Practice Guidelines, not to standard regional "street" protocols. >From a patient-care perspective, it is preferable to have Wilderness EMTs under the direction of Wilderness Command Physicians caring for the patient until the he or she reaches an ambulance. WCPs can provide direction to WEMTs outside the EMS system, through the Pennsylvania Medical Practice Act's generic Delegated Practice provisions. For PSARC/DCNR searches, this could be the WEMT's usual WCP or, if the on-scene WEMTs don't have a WCP, it could be the WCP on call for the Wilderness EMS Institute. I think we might be able to get approval for this policy at the highest level, i.e., a vote from the Medical Advisory Committee of the Pennsylvania Emergency Health Services Council. This would also require an agreement between WEMSI and PSARC for WEMSI to provide wilderness EMS direction for PSARC searches, if and only if no local Wilderness Command Physicians are available. Well, this may be somewhat controversial, but I think something along these lines will make rescues during searches a lot better, and improve the quality of patient care. What about rescues that aren't part of a search? Well, that's a much more difficult situation, due to the number of agencies involved. But I think if we can attack the search problem first, we can create a model that will serve us well on straight rescues as well. Thank you for your thoughts about these ideas. -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:29:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-14.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.84]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806301324.JAA05651@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, PSARC.Forms.Committee@pitt.edu Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:24:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED Open Letter about WEMS in PA CC: EMS-L@listserv.ACNS.NWU.EDU, asrc-bod@virginia.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu An Open Letter to the Pennsylvania SAR and EMS Communities --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP www.pitt.edu/~kconover 412-561- 3413 (H) [member, Board of Directors, Pennsylvania Search and Rescue Council; member, Medical Advisory Committee, Pennsylvania Emergency Health Services Council; Medical Director, Wilderness EMS Institute; Medical Director for Pennsylvania, Appalachian Search and Rescue Conference; Medical Advisor, Eastern Region, National Cave Rescue Commission] Several recent events have convinced many that now is the time to rethink wilderness/ backcountry rescue in Pennsylvania. * Searches: There were several Wilderness EMTs and wilderness rescue-trained people at the search base during several recent searches in southwest Pennsylvania. But when the find was made, this rescue/medical capacity didn't make it to the patient. * SAR Forms: The Pennsylvania Search and Rescue Council is now revising the state SAR forms packet. These are the standard for search operations in Pennsylvania, and includes a medical/evacuation plan. * Pennsylvania EMS changes: Pennsylvania EMS has a new director, Margaret Trimble. Many changes are coming to the Pennsylvania EMS system; EMS has been "moved up" a level in the state bureaucracy. And after many years, there is hope of having an organized wilderness EMS capacity within the Pennsylvania EMS system. At present, Wilderness EMS has to be outside the EMS system. See below, and the postings at www.wemsi.org, for more about the legal and legislative aspects of wilderness EMS in Pennsylvania. * Rescues: At a recent meeting of the Pennsylvania Emergency Health Services Council Medical Advisory Committee, I was chatting with Dr. Doug Kupas of Geisenger Medical Center. Doug has a strong interest in wilderness as well as "street" EMS and has been the medical director for Wilderness EMT classes in north-central PA. Geisenger's helicopter service responds several times a year to rescues in Rickett's Glen state park. Doug said that the rescue management is usually fragmented between several different agencies, with varying experience levels and wilderness rescue training. Seldom are Wilderness EMTs taking care of the patients, even though the rescues often take several hours. * WEMSI: The Wilderness EMS Institute continues its attempts to improve backcountry medical care in Pennsylvania and around the globe. WEMSI WEMT and Wilderness Command Physician classes are offered in Pennsylvania on a regular basis. WEMSI also works to develop model Wilderness EMS systems in the U.S. and other countries. Well, who knows how these are all going to come together, or what the results will be? But the synchronicity is undeniable. Wilderness rescue and wilderness EMS in Pennsylvania need to improve, and the resources and determination are coming together. What can we do? What should we do? A first step (because it's easiest): improve rescue and Wilderness EMS when a search finds someone. DCNR (Department of Conservation and Natural Resources) Rangers and PSARC (Pennsylvania Search and Rescue Council) teams work together pretty closely, and do the bulk of the searches in Pennsylvania. Together, we can make some changes for the better right now. Let's first agree on what needs to happen to make rescues and backcountry medical care work out right. And then we can make it happen during every search. The easiest way to make it happen is to (1) put the protocol on the Medical/Evacuation Plan form in the new PSARC SAR Forms Packet, and then (2) tell all search managers to use the Forms Packet. Here are some specific suggestions: * Identify Personnel: Sign-in forms will have places for "WEMT" "WEMT-P" "FTM" and "FTL" -- so we can tell who has the training we need for the rescues. * More Detailed Medical/Evacuation Plan: include the following in the Medical/Evacuation Plan protocol: * Evacuation Team TAF: "Create a Task Assignment Form for the Evacuation Team with adequate personnel, including specific names, and equipment for the task and where it is. Make sure that as personnel at Base change to update the personnel on the TAF as needed. Attach the TAF, with maps ready to mark the subject's location, to the Medical/Evacuation Plan." * Minimum Rescue Personnel: "When possible, assign two FTLs and two WEMT-Basics or better to respond with the Evacuation Team." * Stripping Base for the Evacuation Team: "If the Evacuation Team includes members of Base Staff, indicate staff members to go and who is to replace their functions:" Stripping the base isn't ideal. But it's better than not having a trained evacuation team at all, which is what's been happening recently. * Medical Direction: "Establish a link to a Wilderness Command Physician (WCP) by calling the local WEMT's WCP, or if the local WEMTs don't have a certified WCP, call WEMSI at 1-800-232-5921 and have the WEMSI WCP on call to provide medical direction to WEMTs on the evacuation team." Kenneth Brody, the EMS lawyer for the Department of Health, has ruled that backcountry care is outside the scope of the existing Pennsylvania EMS system (see the Legal Issues in Pennsylvania section of www.wemsi.org for more). Though "street" providers can provide Good Samaritan-type care in backcountry situations, it cannot be considered a regular part of their EMS scope of practice. This means that going outside their "street" protocols to provide acceptable backcountry care (e.g., reducing dislocations, giving oral fluids, giving antibiotics) is questionable. Note also that, according to the EMS law, regular Command Physicians cannot provide medical direction for backcountry patients, except as an exceptional circumstance. If they end up in court, "regular" Command Physicians providing medical direction for backcountry rescues will probably be held to national standards such as those established in the Wilderness Medical Society Practice Guidelines, not to standard regional "street" protocols. >From a patient-care perspective, it is preferable to have Wilderness EMTs under the direction of Wilderness Command Physicians caring for the patient until the he or she reaches an ambulance. WCPs can provide direction to WEMTs outside the EMS system, through the Pennsylvania Medical Practice Act's generic Delegated Practice provisions. For PSARC/DCNR searches, this could be the WEMT's usual WCP or, if the on-scene WEMTs don't have a WCP, it could be the WCP on call for the Wilderness EMS Institute. I think we might be able to get approval for this policy at the highest level, i.e., a vote from the Medical Advisory Committee of the Pennsylvania Emergency Health Services Council. This would also require an agreement between WEMSI and PSARC for WEMSI to provide wilderness EMS direction for PSARC searches, if and only if no local Wilderness Command Physicians are available. Well, this may be somewhat controversial, but I think something along these lines will make rescues during searches a lot better, and improve the quality of patient care. What about rescues that aren't part of a search? Well, that's a much more difficult situation, due to the number of agencies involved. But I think if we can attack the search problem first, we can create a model that will serve us well on straight rescues as well. Thank you for your thoughts about these ideas. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:56:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.goodnet.com (pop.goodnet.com [207.98.129.100]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PC_.goodnet.com (phx-ts17-3.goodnet.com [207.98.133.4]) by pop.goodnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA18007 for ; Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:56:00 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "WEMS News" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: W-EMED MRA announces new officers Date: Sat, 27 Jun 98 11:52:04 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P49DD0.CNM NEWS RELEASE The Mountain Rescue Association, based in Golden, Colorado is proud to announce its new officers for 1998-2000, elected at the 40th Annual meeting at Mt. Hood, Oregon last weekend. President: Tim Kovacs, Central Az MRA & Maricopa County Sheriff's Office MR, AZ. tkovacs@goodnet.com Vice President: Rocky Henderson, Portland Mtn Rescue, OR. rockyh9@idt.net Secretary: Tom Frazer, El Paso County SAR, CO. frazer@csc32.cxo.dec.com Member At Large/ Treasurer: Jon Inskeep, Sierra Madre SAR, CA. 71553.661@compuserve.com Member At Large: Rod Knopp, Idaho Mtn SAR Unit, ID. idsar@execu.net The MRA is also proud to announce a New Medical Advisor/ Chair: Ken Zafren, MD/ FACEP. Alaska Mtn Rescue Group & Denali National Park. Other Members: Joe Rusinko, MD, FACEP. Tacoma Mtn Rescue, WA Martin Radwin, DO. Weber County SAR, UT Highlights of the 40th Annual Meeting include; - Establishing a new MRA Research Grant. - Placing new Avalanche and Climbing Public Safety Announcements in various publications. - Piloting a new Snowboarder Safety program - Continuing to co-host the North American Technical Rescue Symposium (this year in November in North Carolina) with the National Association for Search and Rescue (NASAR). - Continuing to work with NASAR to provide delegates to the International Commission for Alpine Rescue in Europe (IKAR-CISA). - Addressing the "No Bolting, No Permanent Anchors" issue with the USFS, as it relates to potential Rescue matters. The MRA, established in 1958 and made up of over 85 operational volunteer and governmental mountain rescue organizations in the US, Canada, South America and Europe, is a volunteer organization "dedicated to saving lives through rescue and mountain safety education". Numerous MRA units are also involved in FEMA and OFDA responses. The MRA provides peer accreditation to teams, collects SAR Mission Statistics, provides a Clearinghouse for research, numerous liaisons and committees, and is committed to serving agencies to provide safe and quality mountain and wilderness Technical, Snow & Ice search and rescue. The MRA's website is at www.mra.org or mra@mra.org Please don't hesitate to contact one of us for anything we can do for you. "You can't teach people to rescue in the mountains until they have learnt to climb... ...It is a number of small points which have little significance individually that, considered together, spell danger to the experienced rescuer." Hamish MacInnes By Authority: Tim Kovacs, President. tkovacs@goodnet.com˙ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:34:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:29:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:29:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emu.capnet.state.tx.us (mail.capnet.state.tx.us [204.65.39.248]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from discovery ([204.65.21.6]) by emu.capnet.state.tx.us (8.9.0/8.9.0.1998-0610-0126) with SMTP id LAA18321; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:31:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199807031631.LAA18321@emu.capnet.state.tx.us> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Lee Deviney" Organization: Texas Public Finance Authority To: rjudy@sfasu.edu Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:15:55 -500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED Re: Kayak Polo Injuries, Not a Joke CC: canoetx@world.std.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 1 P422C0.CNM Jeeesh! I can't argue with you w/r/t safety. Maybe I'll do something safer...like the Texas Watrer Safari. Haven't tried polo but have watched in Austin and California...I think it's a hell of a good and fun way to teach fundamentals especially to young aspiring competetive paddlers. I know there must be a kayak helmet in the garage...no face mask though.. Maybe the old high school football helmet still fits. Lee > Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 10:47:55 -0500 > From: Robert Michael Judy > Subject: Kayak Polo Injuries, Not a Joke > To: Glenn Hart > Cc: canoetx@world.std.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Organization: SFASU College of Education, Technologist > Reply-to: Robert Michael Judy > On a more serious note I would like to advise all paddlers to: > > get a face guard and use it. > > install a face shield on your helmet and wear it. > IF WE SET > AN EXAMPLE OTHERS WILL FOLLOW!!!! > > obtain and use face saving equipment on your paddling helmet. > > I hope all the previous humor doesn't prevent people from reading, > understanding, and adopting the above advice. > > A lot has been said in the past few months about paddler > deaths/injuries and I will not quote any of it but the jist of the > advice is that paddling helmets should provide protection for the > temple and face area. Several writers have speculated that some > incidents may have been survivable if more protection was used by > the involved paddlers. > > Temple and face injuries often result in short to long term > incapacitation resulting from temporary loss of or reduction in > consciousness, short term shock states induced by sudden blunt > trauma, and/or intense pain. Disorientation resulting from trauma is > a bad state for people upside down in paddle boats. (period) > > There are no good reasons for paddlers not to wear more temple and > face protection.. > > I wish Paddlesport Instructors would make as big a issue of > temple/face protection as they do about PFDs. I know there are a > lot of seemingly good reasons popping into peoples heads about why > temple/face protection is not such a big deal, why it isn't ALWAYS > necessary, etc. and I say the same kind of reasoning is used by > people who don't want to wear PFDs all the time they are in their > boats. > > None of us would paddle with someone not wearing a PFD and helmet, > none of us should paddle with someone not wearing a face/temple > protective device. > > I hate to drag the WEMT guys (CC above) into this but I feel quite > strongly about this and some of them may have arguments/anecdotes > which will convince more of you to adopt face/temple protection for > your helmets. > > Have a safe weekend, paddle hardy. > > Glenn Hart wrote: > > > > I think that Marco guy is the one who was playing polo on Town > > Lake the other day, but he left early when someone accidentally > > hit him with a paddle, giving him a fat lip. > > > > Glenn Hart > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-a1-16.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.26]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:47:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806160147.VAA28848@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: "Alan Keith" , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 21:46:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Message confirmation problems In-reply-to: <002f01bd9881$0792b460$71d69bce@newmicronpc> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 8bc018b06c074a4feea9839bc801b5e3 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 On 15 Jun 98 at 12:14, Alan Keith wrote: > Dear sirs, > I have tried to confirm my wish to be placed on your mailing list > and either get a undelivered mail due to the incorrect placement > of quotation marks in the return address or receive the same > message to confirm my wish to be place on the list with a > confirmation number. Please place me on the list and I hope you > can rectify the other problems. > Alan Keith > avalon@cookeville.com > auth 25b5d029 Hi, Alan. You should send "subscribe" and let the mailer take your address from the header, it refuses to take subscriptions otherwise. Detailed instructions are below in my .SIG Please let me know by direct email if this works. Sorry for the trouble. Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP (NSS 12893, WD4PSY) http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover - Information Systems Coordinator, Dept. of EM, Mercy Hospital - Clinical Assistant Professor, Dept. of Emergency Medicine, Univ. of Pittsburgh (EM Residency and Center for Emergency Medicine) - Medical Director, Wilderness EMS Institute (http://www.wemsi.org; for a WEMSI-sponsored list, send "subscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" to Majordomo@list.pitt.edu) - Eastern Region, Natl. Cave Rescue Comm./Appalachian SAR Conf. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:29:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.goodnet.com (smtp1.goodnet.com [207.98.129.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:27:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (phx-ts12-20.goodnet.com [207.98.132.117]) by smtp1.goodnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA15490; Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:28:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0019111F.003144@ed.gov> References: Conversation <0019111F.003144@ed.gov> with last message <0019111F.003144@ed.gov> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "WEMS News" , "WEMS News" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: Re: W-EMED In search of Koester/dbS Productions Date: Fri, 12 Jun 98 19:12:17 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 6e55d848f45436b00629b12444558995 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 NASAR bookstore also has the Fatigue book. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b2-8.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.98]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806111253.IAA28787@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: "PA Em. Health Svcs. Council" Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:53:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED PA State EMS Plan CC: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com, "Allegheny Mtn. Rescue Maillist" X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 1b6c72f206c65fa858c73728d60be281 My only comment on the PA EMS Plan is that it seems to neglect a major issue that we discussed at the last MAC meeting, i.e., the question of the scope of practice of EMS providers, specifically in special settings including interhospital transfer and in settings outside "official" EMS. As the official representative of the Pennsylvania Wilderness EMS and Search and Rescue communities to the MAC, I would in particular like the wilderness/backcountry context to be included in the state EMS Plan. This is documented in the letters posted at http://www.wemsi.org/pa_ems.html I will encourage others in the WEMS/SAR communities to review the proposed new PA EMS Plan, available at www.pehsc.org by a copy of this message. Thank you very much. Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP (NSS 12893, WD4PSY) http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover - Information Systems Coordinator, Dept. of EM, Mercy Hospital - Clinical Assistant Professor, Dept. of Emergency Medicine, Univ. of Pittsburgh (EM Residency and Center for Emergency Medicine) - Medical Director, Wilderness EMS Institute (http://www.wemsi.org; for a WEMSI-sponsored list, send "subscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" to Majordomo@list.pitt.edu) - Eastern Region, Natl. Cave Rescue Comm./Appalachian SAR Conf. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:37:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:37:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-c3-14.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.184]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806102236.SAA29720@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: sark9keel@Juno.com (Lara L Oehrlein), wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:36:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED rjk5a@avery.med.virginia.edu CC: Robert Koester In-reply-to: <19980610.165514.24342.0.sark9keel@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 6809e8629dee06a181592288fdfecc6a On 10 Jun 98 at 16:55, Lara L Oehrlein wrote: > Hi! I read on wilderness-emergency-med list that you published a > book called > "Fatigue: Sleep Management During Disasters and Sustained > Operations." > > Can you please send order information? Thanks! > > Lara Oehrlein Hi, Lara. You accidentally posted to the list rather than to Bob. And here's his new address: Robert Koester Maybe he can post ordering information to the list. It's a good book. He also has a training course for SAR teams and other related agencies based on the book. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ts89-22.tor.istar.ca ([204.191.137.173] helo=k9corner) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu id 0yjs6n-0004Bq-00; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:08:38 -0400 From: "Steve Urszenyi" To: Subject: RE: W-EMED In search of Koester/dbS Productions Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:06:39 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bd94b3$a951a940$ad89bfcc@k9corner> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <0019111F.003144@ed.gov> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: c8e76fbfcb07bae545b5bb1fabe4a6ae X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Peter McCabe wrote: > Bob Koester (aka dbS Publications) lives in Charlottesville VA. > His home phone number is (804) 293-5502. He also has a > WEB page which can be linked via <>. > Hope this helps. His e-mail address is Bob Koester < mailto:rjk5a@avery.med.virginia.edu > Steve Urszenyi Paramedic & Acting Supervisor, EMS Operations Toronto EMS ( http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/ems/ ) Personal e-mail: mailto:k9corner@istar.ca Steve's Canine Corner: http://home.istar.ca/~k9corner ICQ # 6809162 The opinions expressed herein are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of any department, agency or municipality. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:54:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:53:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from sark9keel@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DFEQLK43; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:52:39 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:55:13 +0000 Subject: W-EMED rjk5a@avery.med.virginia.edu Message-ID: <19980610.165514.24342.0.sark9keel@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6 From: sark9keel@Juno.com (Lara L Oehrlein) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 39727820c2a00c338f2d71031fe3e998 X-PMFLAGS: 36700288 0 Hi! I read on wilderness-emergency-med list that you published a book called "Fatigue: Sleep Management During Disasters and Sustained Operations." Can you please send order information? Thanks! Lara Oehrlein _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:22:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vader.ed.gov (root@vader.ed.gov [165.224.216.253]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpgwy1.ed.gov (smtpgwy1.ed.gov [165.224.16.166]) by vader.ed.gov (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA13622 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ccMail by smtpgwy1.ed.gov (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 0019111F; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:20:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:24:14 -0400 Message-ID: <0019111F.003144@ed.gov> From: Peter_McCabe@ed.gov (Peter McCabe) Subject: Re: W-EMED In search of Koester/dbS Productions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 66f735559f6e4a0288ea2decdb974a7c X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 Bob Koester (aka dbS Publications) lives in Charlottesville VA. His home phone number is (804) 293-5502. He also has a WEB page which can be linked via <>. Hope this helps. /s/ Peter McCabe ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: W-EMED In search of Koester/dbS Productions Author: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu at Internet Date: 6/10/1998 3:04 PM Query: In 1997 Robert Koester published an excellent book titled, "Fatigue: Sleep Management During Disasters and Sustained Operations." I wanted to order additional copies of the book but find that the 800 numbers in the book have been discontinued. Can't find RK or dbS productions in the directory. Anyone know if the book is still available or how to contact these parties? Thanking anyone in advance, Kevin Gerold Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu ************************************************************** This email message and attachments have been scanned and found to be free of all known viruses. ************************************************************** Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:08:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:07:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.194.198.69] (balshiva2-117.flash.net [208.194.198.117]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14908 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:06:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:04:54 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Kevin Gerold Subject: W-EMED In search of Koester/dbS Productions Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 4174ee6422350cd631953d0e950707e4 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Query: In 1997 Robert Koester published an excellent book titled, "Fatigue: Sleep Management During Disasters and Sustained Operations." I wanted to order additional copies of the book but find that the 800 numbers in the book have been discontinued. Can't find RK or dbS productions in the directory. Anyone know if the book is still available or how to contact these parties? Thanking anyone in advance, Kevin Gerold Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:55:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.38]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:52:36 -0400 (EDT) From: DoctrRick@aol.com Received: from DoctrRick@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id BLROa04557 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:51:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3a40bc01.357eb991@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:51:28 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndro Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 8bfc546c4819f3e3969fe41cc6886329 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 We have had good luck with large animal veterinary thermometers. They are very durable and still need to be kept out of high temps and do not work for hypothemia temperatures. Yet for picking up fever they work good orally. Rick Bennett, Instructor Wilderness Medicine Institute Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:41:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from llama.swcp.com (llama.swcp.com [198.59.115.19]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:41:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tanman@localhost) by llama.swcp.com (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id LAA27946 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:41:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: llama.swcp.com: tanman owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:41:33 -0600 (MDT) From: TANMAN To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndro In-Reply-To: <3a40bc01.357eb991@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 7db8b4ee349f2884d44f34c4de196451 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 What is the price range of a good mecury thermometer? Thomas A. Naegele, DO Internet 9405 Lagrima de Oro NE 505-275-7267 Albuquerque, NM 87111 Board Certified Family Practice/Board Certified Quality Assurance MEDICAL WHITE PAPERS MAGAZINE FOR COMMUNITY PHYSICIANS http://www.swcp.com/~tanman/ __________________________________________________________________ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:30:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from x12.boston.juno.com (x12.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.26]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:29:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from cvw@juno.com) by x12.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DFCMV4YM; Tue, 09 Jun 1998 22:26:57 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 00:47:47 -0600 Subject: Re: W-EMED Gloves Message-ID: <19980609.202606.16062.0.cvw@juno.com> References: <199806081252.IAA08576@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-12,17-18,20-21,23-27,29-30 From: cvw@Juno.com (chris v weddle) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: e829ea3fcfc30b929b387501b15996f8 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 On Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:52:07 +0000 "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" writes: >Question -- for the WEMSI standard Personal Wilderness Medical Kit, >which is designed both as a personal EMT kit for rescues, with >additional modules for searches and for medics or other advanced >providers -- how many pair of gloves should one carry? >They don't weigh much, but remember that backpackers cut the handles >off toothbrushes and the margins off maps to save weight . . . >Thanks for your thoughts. >--Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP > http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover When I went into wilderness for rescue reasons, I would take a belt pouch that held 10 pairs. Used 'em up often enough. Gloves are so easily torn in that setting, and often as not I was handing out a few pairs to others.Basically this was part of a "see much trauma, plug many leaks" sort of a kit. My small kit for personal wandering has 2 pairs. And the kit fits in a zip-loc sandwich bag no larger than the glove pouch of my rescue days. I have cut margins off maps to fit them into smaller packages, and to start fires. Never did the toothbrush handle trick 'tho... Chris Weddle Colorado Springs An invitation: Please read my small book on SAR Team Membering, and then share your candid opinion: http://www.frii.com/~cvw _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-d1-15.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.205]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806081252.IAA08576@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:52:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED Gloves X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: c43239b4fb193192a8e417725adb05a5 Question -- for the WEMSI standard Personal Wilderness Medical Kit, which is designed both as a personal EMT kit for rescues, with additional modules for searches and for medics or other advanced providers -- how many pair of gloves should one carry? They don't weigh much, but remember that backpackers cut the handles off toothbrushes and the margins off maps to save weight . . . Thanks for your thoughts. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:31:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cig.defence.gov.au (cig.defence.gov.au [203.102.38.193]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:31:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Craig.Schramm.186001@army.defence.gov.au Received: by cig.defence.gov.au; id KAA26764; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 10:23:29 +1000 (EST) Received: from unknown(203.10.138.5) by cig.defence.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma026758; Sun, 7 Jun 98 10:23:03 +1000 Received: by inet-cbr.defence.gov.au; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA08259; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 00:28:43 GMT Received: from defweb1.defence.gov.au (unverified [203.10.138.10]) by dkn-ms4.defence.gov.au (Integralis SMTPRS 2.04) with SMTP id ; Sun, 07 Jun 1998 10:28:19 +1000 Received: from ns.defence.gov.au by defweb1.defence.gov.au; (8.8.7/1.1.8.2/24Oct97-0322PM) id KAA01399; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 10:30:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from test.army.defence.gov.au by ns.defence.gov.au; (8.8.7/1.1.8.2/24Oct97-0322PM) id KAA02559; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 10:00:17 +0930 (CST) Received: from dmdenotesgtwy.army.defence.gov.au by test.army.defence.gov.au (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA05815; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 10:32:38 +1000 Received: by dmdenotesgtwy.army.defence.gov.au(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.6 3-18-1997)) id 4A25661C.0002CDFC ; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 10:30:38 +1000 X-Lotus-Fromdomain: AUSTDEFENCE To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Message-Id: <4A25661C.00026A71.00@dmdenotesgtwy.army.defence.gov.au> Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 10:27:34 +1000 Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndro Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: e70a3070fd275ac610c65b17e4288fb5 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 "kconover+"@pitt.edu on 06/05/98 08:08:54 PM Please respond to wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu To: gt2030a@prism.gatech.edu, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu cc: Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndro >I was talking about the _electronic_ thermometers. The glass ones are useless -- tend to become inaccurate with exposure to temperature extremes, and broken when you need them. The electronic ones come with case. Aircrew get mighty touchy about mercury from broken thermometers in their aircraft, too. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:40:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-11.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.81]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806061338.JAA10929@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: BjmPAc@aol.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Serotonin Syndrome more info please? In-reply-to: <4f415a1a.3579243d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 079aaf93c643436806f7a35896c14320 D-SSRI.TXT SSRI and related antidepressants ================================ _ SSRI = Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors - Prozac (fluoxetine) - Paxil (paroxetine) - Zoloft (sertraline) - Fluvox (fluvoxamine) _ Other related (partial) serotonin uptake inhibitors - Effexor (venlafexine) - Buspar (buspirone) - Meridia (sibutramine) - Wellbutrin (bupropion) --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:39:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-11.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.81]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806061338.JAA10918@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: BjmPAc@aol.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Serotonin Syndrome more info please? In-reply-to: <4f415a1a.3579243d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 1a62ab925a988d28a301d4d2ca183e4e MH-NMS.TXT: Malignant Hyperthermia vs. Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome ========================================================= see also: Serotonin Syndrome Neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS) and malignant hyperthermia (MH) share many clinical features the most prominant of which are hyperthermia and muscular rigdity. However extrapyramidal manifestations are not a feature of MH and the extent of temperature elevation in the latter is, in general, much greater than in NMS. The cause of the temperature elevation is believed to be related to the muscular activity in both cases but the underlying cause of this is different in each case. In MH a defect in muscle calcium tranport is believed to be responsible whereas NMS is probably of central origin and related to hypothalamic dopamine blockage or deficiency. There is *no* overlap in the drugs that cause one syndrome or the other (2). Rare case reports have identified patients who have been diagnosed with both disorders (1). In-vitro tests in patients who have been diagnosed with NMS have failed to identify this group as being at risk for development of MH and thus anesthetic management would not be altered (3). In fact the muscular rigidity and fever associated with NMS has been sucessfully treated with sux (4) although most authors prefer the use of pancuronium (when an NMB is deemed to be indicated) for this purpose. Pseudocholinesterase deficiency will prolong the duration of paralysis in patients given depolarizing NMBs. Even those with normal cholinesterase genotypes exhibit a graded response to sux based upon their baseline levels (5). There is no relation between pseudocholinesterase levels and the development of NMS. H. Louzon MD (1) Kelly D, Brull SJ Neuroleptic malignant syndrome and mivacurium: a safe alternative to succinylcholine? Can J Anaesth 1994 Sep;41(9):845-9 Neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS) and malignant hyperthermia (MH) may have a common pathogenic mechanism; therefore, it has been suggested that known triggering agents for MH (such as succinylcholine) should be avoided in patients with NMS. Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) continues to play a major therapeutic role in contemporary psychiatry, and succinylcholine has been the muscle relaxant of choice in attenuating violent muscle contractions induced by ECT. Mivacurium is a non-depolarizing muscle relaxant with a relatively rapid onset and a short duration of action, and to date it has been proved safe in MH-susceptible patients. In this case report, following succinylcholine use during ECT, a patient with NMS developed an increase in temperature and serum creatine kinase (CK) level, possibly due to an MH reaction. Since the patient's mental status necessitated further ECT, mivacurium was administered during subsequent treatment and resulted in effective attenuation of muscle contractions without elevation of patient temperature or CK levels. In addition, there was no marked prolongation of the anaesthetic. Mivacurium is a suitable agent for patients with NMS undergoing ECT, as it has not been associated with precipitation of an MH response. (2) Keck PE Jr, Caroff SN, McElroy SL Neuroleptic malignant syndrome and malignant hyperthermia: end of a controversy? J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci 1995 Spring;7(2):135-44 Two primary hypotheses have been proposed to explain the pathophysiology of the neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS): 1) that NMS is produced by abrupt and extensive central dopamine receptor blockade by neuroleptics, particularly in nigrostriatal and hypothalamic pathways; and 2) that NMS, like malignant hyperthermia (MH), results from a preexisting defect in skeletal muscle metabolism that is unmasked or provoked by neuroleptic exposure. To evaluate these models, the authors review studies published since 1980 of the clinical features, epidemiology, risk factors, laboratory assessment, and relevant animal models of NMS and MH. Data from these studies suggest that although NMS and MH are clinically similar, they are pharmacologically distinct, implying that cross-reactivity between triggering agents is unlikely to occur. (3) Bello N, Adnet P, Saulnier F, Lestavel P, Adnet-Bonte C, Reyford H, Etchrivi T, Tavernier B, Krivosic-Horber R [Lack of sensitivity to per-anesthetic malignant hyperthermia in 32 patients who developed neuroleptic malignant syndrome] Ann Fr Anesth Reanim 1994;13(5):663-8 The aim of this study was to verify whether a relationship exists between neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS) and anaesthetic-induced malignant hyperthermia (MH) or not. The in vitro halothane-caffeine tests were performed on muscle tissue obtained from 32 patients with documented NMS episodes. The diagnosis of NMS relied on Levenson's criteria. The results, expressed in accordance with the criteria of the European MH Group, defined 29 subjects as MH non-susceptible. Three patients were classified as MH equivocal. These findings demonstrate the lack of any link between NMS and MH. Therefore, patients with a history of NMS are not likely to be at risk of developing MH and special measures against MH are not required for anaesthesia in these patients. (4) Morris HH 3d, McCormick WF, Reinarz JA Neuroleptic malignant syndrome. Arch Neurol 1980 Jul;37(7):462-3 The neuroleptic malignant syndrome is an uncommon, severe illness that consists of fever, muscular rigidity, and stupor. Various neuroleptics have been associated with the disease. A detailed neurological, medical, and neuropathological evaluation of this case was performed. Presumably, the syndrome is secondary to biochemical dysfunction of the basal ganglia and possible of the hypothalmus. (5) Vanlinthout LE, van Egmond J, de Boo T, Lerou JG, Wevers RA, Booij LH Factors affecting magnitude and time course of neuromuscular block produced by suxamethonium. Br J Anaesth 1992 Jul;69(1):29-35 This study was designed to identify factors that significantly alter the magnitude and duration of suxamethonium-induced neuromuscular block in patients with an apparently normal genotype for pseudocholinesterase. One hundred and fifty-six adults (ages 18-65 yr) were allocated to 13 subgroups. Patients in each subgroup received suxamethonium 50-2000 micrograms kg-1. The mechanographic response of the adductor pollicis brevis muscle to ulnar nerve stimulation was recorded. The ED50 was found to be 167 micrograms kg-1, ED90 was 316 micrograms kg-1 and ED95 was 392 micrograms kg-1. The duration of action (delta t) was in agreement with earlier published results. The magnitude of block was dose-related and decreased with increasing onset time (ton) and pseudocholinesterase activity (PChA). Neither age nor gender affected the degree of suxamethonium-induced block. Delta t was dose-related, decreased with increasing PChA, and was shorter for women. Age and ton had no effect on delta t. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-11.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.81]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806061338.JAA10923@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: BjmPAc@aol.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 09:38:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Serotonin Syndrome more info please? In-reply-to: <4f415a1a.3579243d@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 25d2783b917d909f11a4e61287eecd79 On 6 Jun 98 at 7:13, BjmPAc@aol.com wrote: > > Could someone comment on Serotonin Synd please?? I'm more intested > in that then what to use to cover thermometers.....thanks > > any references would be appreciated, especially regardingsun > exposure issues. Here's the text notes I have: P-Serot.TXT: Serotonin Syndrome ================== See Also: Malignant Hyperthermia vs. Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome _ Differentiating from NMS: - +++ reflexes in SS, not in NMS _ Serotonin Syndrome may be same as neuroleptic malignant syndrome - NMS: + long term neuroleptics + withdrawal of dopamine agonists + rigidity rather than myoclonus - ? if central hyperthermic hyperexcitability syndrome found in both SS and NMS _ Symptoms of Serotonin Syndrome: - Altered Mental Status: akathisia, agitation, confusion, incoordination, mania, coma. - Autonomic instabiity: hyperthermia, tachypnea, diarrhea, mydriasis, diaphoresis, shivering, tachycardia, variable BP - Neuromuscular abnormalities: nystagmus, myoclonus, rigidity, tremor, hyperreflexia, clonus, seizures. _ Serotonin Syndrome caused by: - excess serotonin in CNS, - decreased reuptake - blocked metabolism, - upregulated receptors _ Specific initiators - SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) excess or OD; e.g.: - Drug Interactions: + MOA inhibitor (Selegiline (Deprenyl) is supposed to be selective MAO-B inhibitor) + SSRI + SRI (Clomipramine, imipramine, TCAs, DM, Demerol, Talwin) (Ref: Tintinalli 4th ed. p 749, Rosen 3rd ed. p 2625) + Agonists such as tryptophan, busiprone, lithium + N.B.: lithium upregulates 5-HT receptors + cocaine _ SS morbidity: - hyperthermia and rigidity may lead to rhabdomyolysis _ Differential Diagnoses: - various ODs, including PCP. _ Rx - Agressive cooling - paralytics - Dantrolene - Benzodiazepines - questionable approaches: + dopamine antagonists: + methysergide + propanolol + cyproheptadine + chlorpromazine ------------------------------ Referenced files will be in separate messages --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.42]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:13:45 -0400 (EDT) From: BjmPAc@aol.com Received: from BjmPAc@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id BLLDa04312; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:13:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f415a1a.3579243d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 07:13:00 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, broche@titan.tcn.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: W-EMED Serotonin Syndrome more info please? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 76 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: ca2d315e336589881bf8008097fedae4 X-PMFLAGS: 35127424 0 Could someone comment on Serotonin Synd please?? I'm more intested in that then what to use to cover thermometers.....thanks any references would be appreciated, especially regardingsun exposure issues. bjm, pa-c Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 23:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 23:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 23:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:58:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-e3-3.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.53]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:58:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806060258.WAA09736@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: Bernie Roche , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:55:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndr In-reply-to: <199806052023.QAA29159@titan.tcn.net> References: <199806051754.NAA04360@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 672d499fa0fbacf546b08cd4825c64ae On 5 Jun 98 at 16:01, Bernie Roche wrote: > The glove will be stronger, and the probe will have the same > sharpness, as when it is used with the flimsy junk covers made for > it.  So the glove should be less prone to tearing than the > original covers.  The key issue here is adequate lubrication, > so that the glove does not adhere to the rectal mucosa.
Ah, but think about how the glove finger is looser than the tight-fitting sleeve designed for the probe. The friction on the bunched loose glove-finger material will create a greater force tending to hold the glove finger back when you try to insert it, compared with the tight-fitting sleeve. Just think about sliding the thermometer probe in without any cover -- minimal friction. Now think about trying to force it in when the anus is covered by a sheet of plastic wrap. True, the plastic wrap will tend to get pushed in by the probe -- but the resistance is such that the probe will likely rip through the plastic rather than bringing the plastic along with it into the anus. Similarly with the glove -- it's not as bad as a flat piece of plastic wrap over the buttocks, but not as good as something that fits the probe exactly. And my suggestion about the Saran Wrap as a cover didn't envision it spread out over the buttocks, but firmly wrapped around the probe to minimize such problems. Any engineers out there to comment on this? Thanks. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: Bernie Roche ,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndr Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:00:58 On 5 Jun 98 at 16:01, Bernie Roche wrote: > The glove will be stronger, and the probe will have the same > sharpness, as when it is used with the flimsy junk covers made for > it.  So the glove should be less prone to tearing than the > original covers.  The key issue here is adequate lubrication, > so that the glove does not adhere to the rectal mucosa.
Ah, but think about how the glove finger is looser than the tight-fitting sleeve designed for the probe. The friction on the bunched loose glove-finger material will create a greater force tending to hold the glove finger back when you try to insert it, compared with the tight-fitting sleeve. Just think about sliding the thermometer probe in without any cover -- minimal friction. Now think about trying to force it in when the anus is covered by a sheet of plastic wrap. True, the plastic wrap will tend to get pushed in by the probe -- but the resistance is such that the probe will likely rip through the plastic rather than bringing the plastic along with it into the anus. Similarly with the glove -- it's not as bad as a flat piece of plastic wrap over the buttocks, but not as good as something that fits the probe exactly. And my suggestion about the Saran Wrap as a cover didn't envision it spread out over the buttocks, but firmly wrapped around the probe to minimize such problems. Any engineers out there to comment on this? Thanks. -- End -- Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:56:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:54:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.tcn.net (root@titan.tcn.net [199.166.4.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Pbroche (ppp-101.m2-10.tor.ican.net [142.154.22.101]) by titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA26876 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806052017.QAA26876@titan.tcn.net> X-Sender: broche@titan.tcn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 15:54:57 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Bernie Roche Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers In-Reply-To: <199806051148.HAA16374@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 48e2d88fabca1687f135de83cc667f6e X-PMFLAGS: 34079360 0 At 07:48 AM 05/06/98 +0000, you wrote:

[snip]

>You can get probe covers for these BD thermometers, but I've found
>(for about the fourth time now) that, after being in your pack for a
>couple of months, you simply can't get the probe into one of these
>flimsy covers without ripping it.

[snip]

>My next solution to try:=A0 I've wrapped the thermometer in Saran Wrap,
>and plan to carefully unwrap it and use the Saran Wrap wrapped over
>the probe as a cover.

[snip]

>Anyone else have ideas?

Hi, Keith:

Yes.  Use surgical rubber gloves in the kit.  Aside from their normal uses, they make an excellent thermometer cover...just use plenty of lubricant, and leave the thermometer in situ a bit longer to allow the lubricant and glove to reach body temperature.

Since the surgical rubber gloves are powdered, they withstand storage in our packs fairly well.

Now, how do we treat a latex allergy per rectum?????

Best Wishes,

Bernie Roche, RN, BScN, W-EMT, OSJ
WEMSI Web Site Administrator
http://www.wemsi.org/
broche@titan.tcn.net Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:00:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:58:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from x17.boston.juno.com (x17.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.29]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:58:25 -0400 (EDT) From: emsmark@Juno.com Received: (from emsmark@juno.com) by x17.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id PVI16007; Fri, 05 Jun 1998 15:57:02 EDT To: kconover+@pitt.edu, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:04:35 -0500 Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndro Message-ID: <19980605.140438.11758.25.emsmark@juno.com> References: <199806051754.NAA04360@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,20-21,29-32 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 864e956da35c59c0dc25295c519788d6 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" writes: >On 5 Jun 98 at 9:22, emsmark@Juno.com wrote: > >> Gloves -- the venerable item from our PPE -- gives you 5 options >> each, plus they come in both latex or non-latex (some people >> have latex allergies). Again, put KY on the exterior for rectal >> insertion, and your thermometer/probe stays clean and dry. > >My only worry is that, since it will fit loosely, that the tip of >the probe will be relatively "sharp" and will poke through the end >when you insert it. Good point. I forgot to preface with "I have not tried this...." I should think that unless you are dealing a very tight rectum, you ought be able to get the probe in with liberal lubrication like KY. [Do not use petroleum based lubes, they'll break down the latex, defeating your efforts -- I do not know what the effects are on other products like vinyl or nitrile gloves.] Guess I'll have to dig out a condom and a glove and see if they can withstand the simulated pressure: 'forcing' a thermometer into a tight-fisted hand should exceed the tensions involved in rectal insertion :) In another reply, s+j nolan asked about "other" emergency uses for condoms. These might include making a flutter valve for chest decompression (tension pneumothorax), a constricting band to help start an IV or for (gulp) snake bites (although that is a whole other topic here, from what I have been reading), a waterproof cover for a bandaged digit.....those are just the things we tried in class. Improvise and be creative -- they are a rather durable/versatile piece of latex* [*consider latex allergies before using in any setting!] Mark McCormick, EMT-P _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-a3-8.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.58]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806051754.NAA04360@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: emsmark@Juno.com, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:54:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndro In-reply-to: <19980605.100027.11758.21.emsmark@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: a8f098a9b38bf6405d8d39ff7ef3c67e X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 On 5 Jun 98 at 9:22, emsmark@Juno.com wrote: > Gloves -- the venerable item from our PPE -- gives you 5 options > each, plus they come in both latex or non-latex (some people have > latex allergies). Again, put KY on the exterior for rectal > insertion, and your thermometer/probe stays clean and dry. My only worry is that, since it will fit loosely, that the tip of the probe will be relatively "sharp" and will poke through the end when you insert it. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:16:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pobox.com (ehdup-m-3.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.22.13]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <357835EB.8D9F08F4@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:16:12 -0500 From: DP/EJ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndrome References: <199806051148.HAA16374@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <19980605.100027.11758.21.emsmark@juno.com> <35781E9A.71A@cnnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 5c6a5f774835ae0e71cc1f66dc5a61a0 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Just a reminder that when gloves, condoms and other such products are selected for inclusion in field kits, that latex allergy be considered. At the least, synthetic alternatives should be included; better to eliminate all latex if possible. In any case, be aware of the potential for iatrogenic reactions to natural rubber latex containing products. Dan Peden Pittsburgh, Pa. s+j nolan wrote: > > Every kit has gloves, and some folks already include condoms in their > > kits, so an option is right at hand when your "official" cover doesn't > > work or you want to extend your protection. [My paramedic instructor > > recommended we carry a couple in our kits because they have many > > emergency uses beyond the "intended design".] > > > > Hope this input is helpful. > > Mark McCormick, EMT-P > > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:42:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:40:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ua1.cnnet.com (ua1.cnnet.com [207.229.6.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.229.6.115] by ua1.cnnet.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/1.aikr) with ESMTP id qa359960 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:37:54 -0600 Message-ID: <35781E9A.71A@cnnet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:36:42 -0600 From: s+j nolan X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndrome References: <199806051148.HAA16374@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <19980605.100027.11758.21.emsmark@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: f49f161ed4e286a6c4ffd233e5fa989b X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 > Every kit has gloves, and some folks already include condoms in their > kits, so an option is right at hand when your "official" cover doesn't > work or you want to extend your protection. [My paramedic instructor > recommended we carry a couple in our kits because they have many > emergency uses beyond the "intended design".] > > Hope this input is helpful. > Mark McCormick, EMT-P > Interested in knowing what "other" emergency uses condoms have. Julie Nolan, BA, RN Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: Daniel Hoechst ,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndro Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:08:45 On 5 Jun 98 at 8:51, Daniel Hoechst wrote: > I'm not sure about the size of the thermometers but an idea I had is > to get those travel toothbrush holders and put the hole thermometer > inside it. These holders are the length of a normal toothbrush and > some have quite a large volume inside. Maybe some other kind of hard > case would protect the thermometer as well. You can get them at any > drug store. I was talking about the _electronic_ thermometers. The glass ones are useless -- tend to become inaccurate with exposure to temperature extremes, and broken when you need them. The electronic ones come with case. -- End -- Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:10:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-6.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.76]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:09:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806051409.KAA16855@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: Daniel Hoechst , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:08:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndro In-reply-to: <199806051251.IAA17489@acmex.gatech.edu> References: <199806051148.HAA16374@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> from "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" at Jun 5, 98 07:48:02 am X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 818c07e16b7fa12e26a66fd2865b99a3 On 5 Jun 98 at 8:51, Daniel Hoechst wrote: > I'm not sure about the size of the thermometers but an idea I had is > to get those travel toothbrush holders and put the hole thermometer > inside it. These holders are the length of a normal toothbrush and > some have quite a large volume inside. Maybe some other kind of hard > case would protect the thermometer as well. You can get them at any > drug store. I was talking about the _electronic_ thermometers. The glass ones are useless -- tend to become inaccurate with exposure to temperature extremes, and broken when you need them. The electronic ones come with case. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:55:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from x17.boston.juno.com (x17.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.29]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:53:57 -0400 (EDT) From: emsmark@Juno.com Received: (from emsmark@juno.com) by x17.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id LDY16007; Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:52:55 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:22:10 -0500 Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndrome Message-ID: <19980605.100027.11758.21.emsmark@juno.com> References: <199806051148.HAA16374@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-28,33-34,38-39,44-47 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: ab2a78c7d7cb62f8f9ef302f72858615 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 My reply is relative to the thermometer cover portion of the original message. On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" writes: >The WEMSI Personal Wilderness Medical Kit includes, for the >minimum kit, a BD electronic thermometer, for situations where you >don't need a continuous-reading Radio Shack type indoor-outdoor >"rectal" thermometer. >You can get probe covers for these BD thermometers, but I've found >(for about the fourth time now) that, after being in your pack for >a couple of months, you simply can't get the probe into one of >these flimsy covers without ripping it. The pressure of being in >the pack, plus maybe exposure to heat, seems to press the two >sides of the flimsy plastic together and "weld" them together. > >My next solution to try: I've wrapped the thermometer in Saran >Wrap, and plan to carefully unwrap it and use the Saran Wrap >wrapped over the probe as a cover. It can also extend protection >back over more of the thermometer than the "official" probe >covers, which is handy given how messy it often is taking a rectal >temp on an ill or injured patient in the backcountry. >Anyone else have ideas? Other options that come to mind are condoms and gloves. Condoms are available in both lubricated and non-lubed; though I imagine the lubed is messier because it is coated on both sides, while you can apply KY to the exterior of the non-lubed prn, keeping the thermometer/probe clean and dry. Gloves -- the venerable item from our PPE -- gives you 5 options each, plus they come in both latex or non-latex (some people have latex allergies). Again, put KY on the exterior for rectal insertion, and your thermometer/probe stays clean and dry. Every kit has gloves, and some folks already include condoms in their kits, so an option is right at hand when your "official" cover doesn't work or you want to extend your protection. [My paramedic instructor recommended we carry a couple in our kits because they have many emergency uses beyond the "intended design".] Hope this input is helpful. Mark McCormick, EMT-P _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:51:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acmex.gatech.edu (gt2030a@acmex.gatech.edu [130.207.165.22]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from gt2030a@localhost) by acmex.gatech.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA17489 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:51:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Hoechst Message-Id: <199806051251.IAA17489@acmex.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndrome To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:51:13 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199806051148.HAA16374@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> from "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" at Jun 5, 98 07:48:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: d6a0641c6e551257c53690f2ccdea5b1 X-PMFLAGS: 35127424 0 I'm not sure about the size of the thermometers but an idea I had is to get those travel toothbrush holders and put the hole thermometer inside it. These holders are the length of a normal toothbrush and some have quite a large volume inside. Maybe some other kind of hard case would protect the thermometer as well. You can get them at any drug store. Daniel Hoechst, WFR Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:49:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:49:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-6.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.76]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806051148.HAA16374@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:48:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED Thermometers and Thermometer Covers, Serotonin Syndrome X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 6eb944acc4968bb0d03a70caad0acb50 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 The WEMSI Personal Wilderness Medical Kit includes, for the minimum kit, a BD electronic thermometer, for situations where you don't need a continuous-reading Radio Shack type indoor-outdoor "rectal" thermometer. (Example from last Saturday -- checking the temp on someone who's been lost or stranded but it's been quite warm. As soon as you get a single rectal temp that shows he's not hypothermic or febrile, you don't really need to continue rechecking the temperature.) These thermometers only go down to 96 degrees F (35 degrees C) but still are useful for excluding hypothermia, as long as you have a low-reading thermometer available soon for backup. And they only go up to 105 degrees F (40.8 degrees C) and just last week we had a patient in the ED who had some mild heat exposure, some diarrhea and vomiting (? if infectious), and was on a SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, a kind of psychiatric drug that is prescribed a lot these days, Zoloft in this particular case) as well as two phenothiazines (don't remember which, maybe Compazine and Phenergan). She showed marked motor restlessness, and had a rectal temp of 107 F! We decided that she must have at least a component of Serotonin Syndrome, a relatively newly-discovered illness related to neuroleptic malignant syndrome (NMS). I wouldn't be surprised if more of the elderly wander-away-type lost people aren't on similar drugs these days, and we may find such high temps on search subjects. In the ED, we gave the patient some midazolam (Versed) which decreased the motor tone and motor restlessness, and probably was as important as the cooling blanket and acetaminophen at getting her temperature down. You can get probe covers for these BD thermometers, but I've found (for about the fourth time now) that, after being in your pack for a couple of months, you simply can't get the probe into one of these flimsy covers without ripping it. The pressure of being in the pack, plus maybe exposure to heat, seems to press the two sides of the flimsy plastic together and "weld" them together. My next solution to try: I've wrapped the thermometer in Saran Wrap, and plan to carefully unwrap it and use the Saran Wrap wrapped over the probe as a cover. It can also extend protection back over more of the thermometer than the "official" probe covers, which is handy given how messy it often is taking a rectal temp on an ill or injured patient in the backcountry. Will it become welded into a single mass of plastic like the probe covers? Hope not. The Saran Wrap is a bit thicker than the probe covers. Will I be able to get it unwrapped and get it to work? Dunno. Keep tuned. If all else fails, just use the d___ thing and then get another when you get back from the operation. They're only about $10 each. Anyone else have ideas? I would like to also open up for discussion if we want to discard the idea of the BD electronic thermometer and simply use the Radio Shack thermometers as the single thermometer in the kit. It weighs just a bit more, and is a bit more unwieldly, and doesn't "beep" when it's decided what the temperature is, and isn't quite as accurate -- but it reads high and low temps quite well. Thanks in advance for your thoughtful comments. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:24:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from camel14.mindspring.com (camel14.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (ip114.mobile.al.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.248.114]) by camel14.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA15830 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980604212232.503f3532@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: pmturner@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 21:22:32 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Patton Turner Subject: Re: W-EMED Snake bite kits In-Reply-To: <199806021122.HAA19522@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu> References: <199806012123.OAA02739@dalmatian.webnexus.com> <199806011914.PAA03243@list.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: f87c58a16f192cdf79259a90f3e7c370 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 At 07:22 AM 6/2/98 +0000, you wrote: > >1. Constricting bands unlikely to help with North American pit >vipers, where the main problem is local toxicity, not systemic >toxicity. The constricting band will make the local damage worse, >for sure, and is unlikely to help the systemic toxicity as there is >no good evidence that the venom travels by lymph anyway. I noticed that Saywer quit shipping the constricting bands with their snake bit kit. Pat Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-c2-3.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.153]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806021122.HAA19522@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: David Kovar , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:22:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Snake bite kits In-reply-to: <199806012123.OAA02739@dalmatian.webnexus.com> References: <199806011914.PAA03243@list.srv.cis.pitt.edu> from "Robert Norris" at Jun 1, 98 12:14:32 pm X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 872b14c3dc0587d622b182dc77d5a960 On 1 Jun 98 at 14:23, David Kovar wrote: > > Constriction band (superficial venous, lymphatic occlusion only) - > > unclear, but probably worthwhile in the event of a bad snakebite > > (large, toxic snake, risk of death, delay in arriving at medical > > care [say > 30 minutes out]) I would also add -- 1. Constricting bands unlikely to help with North American pit vipers, where the main problem is local toxicity, not systemic toxicity. The constricting band will make the local damage worse, for sure, and is unlikely to help the systemic toxicity as there is no good evidence that the venom travels by lymph anyway. 2. For non-North-American snakes, the Australian/CSL/Sutherland techniques (i.e., using an elastic bandage over the whole limb, maybe with a wad of gauze pads over the site to make the bite ischemic and keep the venom there) may be appropriate instead of a lymph constrictor. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: David Kovar ,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Snake bite kits Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:12:34 On 1 Jun 98 at 14:23, David Kovar wrote: > > Constriction band (superficial venous, lymphatic occlusion only) - > > unclear, but probably worthwhile in the event of a bad snakebite > > (large, toxic snake, risk of death, delay in arriving at medical > > care [say > 30 minutes out]) I would also add -- 1. Constricting bands unlikely to help with North American pit vipers, where the main problem is local toxicity, not systemic toxicity. The constricting band will make the local damage worse, for sure, and is unlikely to help the systemic toxicity as there is no good evidence that the venom travels by lymph anyway. 2. For non-North-American snakes, the Australian/CSL/Sutherland techniques (i.e., using an elastic bandage over the whole limb, maybe with a wad of gauze pads over the site to make the bite ischemic and keep the venom there) may be appropriate instead of a lymph constrictor. -- End -- Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:26:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:23:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greatdane.webnexus.com (greatdane.webnexus.com [165.227.96.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:23:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dalmatian.webnexus.com (dalmatian.webnexus.com [207.251.31.8]) by greatdane.webnexus.com (8.8.7/8.8.5/WN-1.3) with ESMTP id OAA28971 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kovar@localhost) by dalmatian.webnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/WN-1.3) id OAA02739 for wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:23:19 -0700 (PDT) From: David Kovar Message-Id: <199806012123.OAA02739@dalmatian.webnexus.com> Subject: Re: W-EMED Snake bite kits To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:23:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199806011914.PAA03243@list.srv.cis.pitt.edu> from "Robert Norris" at Jun 1, 98 12:14:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 PGP2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 77d08fcb312cda5a248575e015adb74b X-PMFLAGS: 35127424 0 This is exactly what we were taught in WMA's Wilderness First Responder Course a few months ago. -David > > REPLY TO 05/30/98 10:24 FROM wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu: > W-EMED Snake bite kits > > Would suggest referring to the snakebite chapters in Auerbach's > text. The recommendations there are, I believe, sound. > > No good proof about any field intervention. > > Rapid transport - best. > Rest, splint - probably good. > Immediate suction (within < 3 min, by mechanical device such as the > "Extractor") - possibly good, probably no harm > Constriction band (superficial venous, lymphatic occlusion only) - > unclear, but probably worthwhile in the event of a bad snakebite > (large, toxic snake, risk of death, delay in arriving at medical > care [say > 30 minutes out]) > Incisions, Mouth suction, electric shock, ice - all "no, no's"... > > Best wishes, > Bob Norris, MD > Chief, Emergency Medicine > Stanford University > > To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:17:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:15:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Forsythe.Stanford.EDU (forsythe.Stanford.EDU [36.54.0.16]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806011914.PAA03243@list.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 12:14:32 PDT From: "Robert Norris" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Snake bite kits Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 864b3a662f490b19bf6072892a8ecaf0 X-PMFLAGS: 33554560 0 REPLY TO 05/30/98 10:24 FROM wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu: W-EMED Snake bite kits Would suggest referring to the snakebite chapters in Auerbach's text. The recommendations there are, I believe, sound. No good proof about any field intervention. Rapid transport - best. Rest, splint - probably good. Immediate suction (within < 3 min, by mechanical device such as the "Extractor") - possibly good, probably no harm Constriction band (superficial venous, lymphatic occlusion only) - unclear, but probably worthwhile in the event of a bad snakebite (large, toxic snake, risk of death, delay in arriving at medical care [say > 30 minutes out]) Incisions, Mouth suction, electric shock, ice - all "no, no's"... Best wishes, Bob Norris, MD Chief, Emergency Medicine Stanford University To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:38:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from warhol.informatics.sunysb.edu (root@warhol.informatics.sunysb.edu [129.49.137.212]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from informatics.informatics.sunysb.edu (informatics.informatics.sunysb.edu [129.49.137.7]) by warhol.informatics.sunysb.edu (8.8.6/8.7.2) with ESMTP id JAA01412; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:38:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from INFORMATICS/SpoolDir by informatics.informatics.sunysb.edu (Mercury 1.31); 1 Jun 98 09:38:01 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by INFORMATICS (Mercury 1.31); 1 Jun 98 09:37:36 -0500 From: "Gregory Wayrich [UMC-EMS]" Organization: SUNY Stony Brook To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:37:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Snake bite kits In-reply-to: <98May30.112000-0600_mdt.267958-232+11@mail.telusplanet.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <5E7112F6C9B@informatics.informatics.sunysb.edu> Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 8f6632956b4beec34528257d08e5826a X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Tourniquets tend to restrict both arterial and venous blood flow. Constricting bands tend to reduce venous and/or lymphatic flow. A constricting band is more favorable to a tourniquet because envenomation usually doesn't reach the arteries. As far as suction is concerned, it may be of some help immediately post bite, but after that it's use is minimal. Hope this helps. Greg Wayrich, EMT-P > Hi all > > I am a wilderness first-aid instructor for St. John Ambulance in > Canada. It's a pretty good organization, but very slow to change. > It also orients its courses towards people who will only recertify > every three years and won't use the information in between. I'm > writing to ask if there is more advanced or up-to-date info on snake > bites. > > The advice St. John offers for snake bite is NOT to use snake bite > kits or constricting bands. They say just splint it & get medical > help. > > Is there any value to suction (esp. immediately after envenomation)? > What about constricting bands to someone who is able to > differentiate between a constricting band and a tourniquet? > > I'd appreciate any info anyone can offer me. > > Thanks > > Donovan Hoggan > dhsc@agt.net > > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe > wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) > To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: > wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:23:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgate.telusplanet.net (mailgate.telusplanet.net [199.185.220.53]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 30 May 1998 13:20:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clgrps05.agt.net ([198.161.156.16]:37957 "EHLO clgrps05.agt.net" ident: "IDENT-NOT-QUERIED [port 37957]") by mailgate.telusplanet.net with ESMTP id <53634-21363>; Sat, 30 May 1998 11:20:20 -0600 Received: from LOCALNAME ([204.209.206.82]) by mail.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <267958-232>; Sat, 30 May 1998 11:20:00 -0600 X-Sender: dhsc@mail.agt.net (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: dhsc@agt.net (Donovan & Sheri) Subject: W-EMED Snake bite kits X-Mailer: Message-Id: <98May30.112000-0600_mdt.267958-232+11@mail.telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:20:00 -0600 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: ca6902cc1f1bf06ccfb658e9e4a1ff6e Status: U X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Hi all I am a wilderness first-aid instructor for St. John Ambulance in Canada. It's a pretty good organization, but very slow to change. It also orients its courses towards people who will only recertify every three years and won't use the information in between. I'm writing to ask if there is more advanced or up-to-date info on snake bites. The advice St. John offers for snake bite is NOT to use snake bite kits or constricting bands. They say just splint it & get medical help. Is there any value to suction (esp. immediately after envenomation)? What about constricting bands to someone who is able to differentiate between a constricting band and a tourniquet? I'd appreciate any info anyone can offer me. Thanks Donovan Hoggan dhsc@agt.net Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:38:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-a1-13.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.23]) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 28 May 1998 07:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805281135.HAA16371@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: "Roy L. Alson, MD" , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:35:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: W-EMED WEMSI Personal Medkit - Foley leg bag and Heimlich va In-reply-to: <01BD88F7.94E3D220@slip-32-100-44-47.nc.us.ibm.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: a56f86326bd713ba31d1301c6f71358d X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 On 26 May 98 at 22:37, Roy L. Alson, MD wrote: > I'm not sure that a Heimlich needs to be in every personal kit. It > is something that should be with the team, but they are not cheap > and the number of times it would be used does not justify everyone > buying one. Hmmm. The idea was that it was only in the advanced kit, so only paramedic level and above would carry one. But if chest tubes are important in trauma patients (I think you'll agree to that), and I suspect we'll need chest tubes more often than endotracheal intubation, and we're already carrying an ET tube -- doesn't it make sense to carry a Heimlich valve? I'm sure you've seen, as have I, many trauma patients turn around with a chest tube. A 6.5 ET tube isn't an ideal chest tube, but it will drain a lot better than a Foley, and the Heimlich valve also makes it work a lot better. Needling the chest just isn't as good as a bigger hole. On a related note, if we want medics to put ET tubes in as chest tubes, we should include this in the curriculum in the Trauma section. Anyone else have thoughts? --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: "Roy L. Alson, MD" ,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: RE: W-EMED WEMSI Personal Medkit - Foley leg bag and Heimlich va Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:34:50 On 26 May 98 at 22:37, Roy L. Alson, MD wrote: > I'm not sure that a Heimlich needs to be in every personal kit. It > is something that should be with the team, but they are not cheap > and the number of times it would be used does not justify everyone > buying one. Hmmm. The idea was that it was only in the advanced kit, so only paramedic level and above would carry one. But if chest tubes are important in trauma patients (I think you'll agree to that), and I suspect we'll need chest tubes more often than endotracheal intubation, and we're already carrying an ET tube -- doesn't it make sense to carry a Heimlich valve? I'm sure you've seen, as have I, many trauma patients turn around with a chest tube. A 6.5 ET tube isn't an ideal chest tube, but it will drain a lot better than a Foley, and the Heimlich valve also makes it work a lot better. Needling the chest just isn't as good as a bigger hole. On a related note, if we want medics to put ET tubes in as chest tubes, we should include this in the curriculum in the Trauma section. Anyone else have thoughts? -- End -- Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:44:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:44:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from isnet.is.bgsm.edu (root@isnet.is.wfubmc.edu [152.11.118.6]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slip-32-100-44-47.nc.us.ibm.net (slip-32-100-44-47.nc.us.ibm.net [32.100.44.47]) by isnet.is.bgsm.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA01930 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by slip-32-100-44-47.nc.us.ibm.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD88F7.94E3D220@slip-32-100-44-47.nc.us.ibm.net>; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:42:37 -0400 Message-ID: <01BD88F7.94E3D220@slip-32-100-44-47.nc.us.ibm.net> From: "Roy L. Alson, MD" To: "'wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu'" Subject: RE: W-EMED WEMSI Personal Medkit - Foley leg bag and Heimlich valve Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:37:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD88F7.94E3D220" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: c3974004d5e33905dd71089fc8966bc5 X-PMFLAGS: 570949760 0 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD88F7.94E3D220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP [SMTP:kconover+@pitt.edu] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 6:13 AM To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: W-EMED WEMSI Personal Medkit - Foley leg bag and Heimlich valve During the summer and fall of 1998, WEMSI will be revising its=20 recommended Personal Wilderness Medkit document. Discussion of the=20 changes will occur on this list, and will be posted at www.wemsi.org,=20 too. Please refer to the existing list, that is posted at=20 www.wemsi.org, to see the current list as well as comments on the=20 various components. The topic of this message is whether we should add the following=20 items to the Advanced Module of the WEMSI personal wilderness medical=20 kit: 1 - urinary catheter ("Foley") leg bag 1 - Heimlich one-way valve 1 - Foley or similar urinary catheter [Roy L. Alson, MD] Kieth, I'm not sure that a Heimlich needs to be in every personal kit. It is = something that should be with the team, but they are not cheap and the = number of times it would be used does not justify everyone buying one. 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To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-c1-12.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.142]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 22:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805270226.WAA03937@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: "Dr. Kevin Gerold" , wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:26:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED B1 for bites In-reply-to: References: <3403B851.5E81B30A@earthlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 2731d4ee45a46885b5aab3ad3a360648 On 19 May 98 at 5:20, Dr. Kevin Gerold wrote: > Query: > > Karl Neumann in last Summer's Wilderness Medical Letter (Vol. 14, > No 3, > 1997) reported that Vit. B1, though not effective in deterring > biting insects, may reduce the skin irritation after biting occurs. > > Anyone out there with experience with this treatment? Anyone care > to > suggest a dose? > > Thanks Hi, Kevin. There was a product once available called Slo-B-Amine, which was I believe 500 mg slow-release thiamine tablets, and you were supposed to take two twice a day as I remember. Doubt if it's marketed any more as I haven't seen it in any stores. It was marketed to prevent mosquito bites. I used it for a week-long summer hike in the temperate rain forest along Laurel Ridge in SW PA (about 165" of precip a year, plenty of mosquitoes. Laurel Ridge is the westernmost ridge of the Appalachians and strips out a lot of the moisture from the prevailing westerlies via adiabatic cooling as the air rises over it.) As far as I could tell, I didn't get any mosquito bites the entire trip. I guess it could have been that I didn't feel them, but I could also see mosquitoes approaching me, sniffing, and then flying off. Certainly not a controlled experiment by any means, but it certainly _seemed_ to be effective. I quit using it because everything -- my clothes, my pack, and me -- smelled like a damp vitamin pill. Not entirely unpleasant but _very_ strong. The marketers of the product noted that the slow release was needed to get enough into your sweat to be effective, don't know if the research Karl cited looked at concentrations of thaimine in sweat. Hope this is of interest, if not exactly answering your question. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.73]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 18:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc07.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 18:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 26 May 1998 18:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 18:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 18:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from quint.somtel.com (Quint.somtel.com [206.139.114.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 18:47:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from somtel.com.somtel.com (dialup-st-25.somtel.com [206.139.115.154]) by quint.somtel.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA04999 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 18:47:24 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01bd88f8$ee27e1e0$9a738bce@somtel.com.somtel.com> From: "James E.M. Bender" To: Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMSI Personal Medkit - Foley leg bag and Heimlich valve Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:52:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: bc824a58a47d40dacfd1919e6bc3172d X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Hi Keith, In our kits in Maine (Sugarloaf Rescue) we use either adult diapers, or the Texas cath. This is because our docs aren't crazy about the idea of cathing in the field. I also think these items are a lot lighter, and less bulky than a cath kit. That's all for now, the black flies are biting. James -----Original Message----- From: Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 10:35 AM Subject: W-EMED WEMSI Personal Medkit - Foley leg bag and Heimlich valve During the summer and fall of 1998, WEMSI will be revising its recommended Personal Wilderness Medkit document. Discussion of the changes will occur on this list, and will be posted at www.wemsi.org, too. Please refer to the existing list, that is posted at www.wemsi.org, to see the current list as well as comments on the various components. The topic of this message is whether we should add the following items to the Advanced Module of the WEMSI personal wilderness medical kit: 1 - urinary catheter ("Foley") leg bag 1 - Heimlich one-way valve 1 - Foley or similar urinary catheter The current kit includes a 6.5 mm endotracheal tube, which can also be used as a chest tube if necessary. If used as a chest tube, however, and there is blood as well as air coming out, the blood will simply drain into the patient packaging, which certainly isn't ideal. It is a standard practice on many medical helicopters to attach a chest tube to a Heimlich valve, which is a small (about 3 cm. diameter by 10 cm long) plastic cylinder, with a rubber oneway valve in the center, and universal adapters ("Christmas tree adapters") on either end. One end of the Heimlich valve attaches to the chest tube, and the other can be attached to the Foley leg bag. One cuts off the standard Foley adapter on the Foley leg bag, and inserts the universal adapter ("Christmas tree adapter") on the Hemilich valve. The Foley leg bag can also be used for its intended purpose, too - and adding a single Foley catheter makes the person who carries the bag capable of putting in a urinary catheter, too, a useful tool in a multiply-injured patient -- and having the Foley bag means keeping the packaging dry, too. One can argue that it's worth carrying a male external urinary device ("condom cath," "Texas cath"). However, at least in my mind, the main reason for carrying this is that the medic, nurse or doctor carrying the kit doesn't feel like putting in a Foley, despite the advantages of the Foley over the Texas cath: - doesn't fall off - gives an accurate record of urinary output regardless of whether the person wants to urinate or not. We would appreciate the thoughts of the list members on this subject. Thank you. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: "Dr. Kevin Gerold" ,wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED B1 for bites Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:54:20 On 19 May 98 at 5:20, Dr. Kevin Gerold wrote: > Query: > > Karl Neumann in last Summer's Wilderness Medical Letter (Vol. 14, > No 3, > 1997) reported that Vit. B1, though not effective in deterring > biting insects, may reduce the skin irritation after biting occurs. > > Anyone out there with experience with this treatment? Anyone care > to > suggest a dose? > > Thanks Hi, Kevin. There was a product once available called Slo-B-Amine, which was I believe 500 mg slow-release thiamine tablets, and you were supposed to take two twice a day as I remember. Doubt if it's marketed any more as I haven't seen it in any stores. It was marketed to prevent mosquito bites. I used it for a week-long summer hike in the temperate rain forest along Laurel Ridge in SW PA (about 165" of precip a year, plenty of mosquitoes. Laurel Ridge is the westernmost ridge of the Appalachians and strips out a lot of the moisture from the prevailing westerlies via adiabatic cooling as the air rises over it.) As far as I could tell, I didn't get any mosquito bites the entire trip. I guess it could have been that I didn't feel them, but I could also see mosquitoes approaching me, sniffing, and then flying off. Certainly not a controlled experiment by any means, but it certainly _seemed_ to be effective. I quit using it because everything -- my clothes, my pack, and me -- smelled like a damp vitamin pill. Not entirely unpleasant but _very_ strong. The marketers of the product noted that the slow release was needed to get enough into your sweat to be effective, don't know if the research Karl cited looked at concentrations of thaimine in sweat. Hope this is of interest, if not exactly answering your question. -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 11:20:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 11:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 26 May 1998 11:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 11:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 11:18:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ra.mgmainnet.com ([206.152.250.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 11:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from main-net.com ([206.152.250.110]) by ra.mgmainnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA24508 for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 11:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <356B0694.283DE8E3@main-net.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:14:44 -0700 From: Erik Scheiderer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED WEMSI Personal Medkit - Foley leg bag and Heimlich valve References: <199805261413.KAA27370@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 348671e2e50ef7157bf9682832ddfcf8 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP wrote: > During the summer and fall of 1998, WEMSI will be revising its > recommended Personal Wilderness Medkit document. Discussion of the > changes will occur on this list, and will be posted at www.wemsi.org, > too. Please refer to the existing list, that is posted at > www.wemsi.org, to see the current list as well as comments on the > various components. > > The topic of this message is whether we should add the following > items to the Advanced Module of the WEMSI personal wilderness medical > kit: > > 1 - urinary catheter ("Foley") leg bag > 1 - Heimlich one-way valve > 1 - Foley or similar urinary catheter > > The current kit includes a 6.5 mm endotracheal tube, which can also > be used as a chest tube if necessary. If used as a chest tube, > however, and there is blood as well as air coming out, the blood will > simply drain into the patient packaging, which certainly isn't ideal. > It is a standard practice on many medical helicopters to attach a > chest tube to a Heimlich valve, which is a small (about 3 cm. > diameter by 10 cm long) plastic cylinder, with a rubber oneway valve > in the center, and universal adapters ("Christmas tree adapters") on > either end. One end of the Heimlich valve attaches to the chest > tube, and the other can be attached to the Foley leg bag. One cuts > off the standard Foley adapter on the Foley leg bag, and inserts the > universal adapter ("Christmas tree adapter") on the Hemilich valve. > > The Foley leg bag can also be used for its intended purpose, too - > and adding a single Foley catheter makes the person who carries the > bag capable of putting in a urinary catheter, too, a useful tool in a > multiply-injured patient -- and having the Foley bag means keeping > the packaging dry, too. > > One can argue that it's worth carrying a male external urinary device > ("condom cath," "Texas cath"). However, at least in my mind, the > main reason for carrying this is that the medic, nurse or doctor > carrying the kit doesn't feel like putting in a Foley, despite the > advantages of the Foley over the Texas cath: > - doesn't fall off > - gives an accurate record of urinary output regardless of whether > the person wants to urinate or not. > > We would appreciate the thoughts of the list members on this subject. > > Thank you. > --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP > http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Keith, As it relates to foley caths and bags, I carry both in my kit. Something to remember, giving morphine to a patient can supress their ability to void. Placing a foley catheter can alleviate this concern. Applying a Texas cath would not. The Heimlich valve is an excellent idea, though improvisation with an ETT might be difficult. Arrow and Cook Critical Care make prepackaged thoracentesis trays that include the Heimlich valve and a percutaneously inserted catheter. These trays/kits are compact, but expensive (about $50 for the Cook kit). Also, might I suggest using the foley as an improvised chest tube? The Heimlich valve will mate perfectly and the flexiblity of the cath will make it easier to place and secure. Erik Scheiderer, RN, EMT-P Mechanicsburg EMS Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:14:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:13:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:13:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-b1-13.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.83]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:13:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805261413.KAA27370@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:12:59 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED WEMSI Personal Medkit - Foley leg bag and Heimlich valve X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: c2791e0893fa36e4ed22edfc50185c9c During the summer and fall of 1998, WEMSI will be revising its recommended Personal Wilderness Medkit document. Discussion of the changes will occur on this list, and will be posted at www.wemsi.org, too. Please refer to the existing list, that is posted at www.wemsi.org, to see the current list as well as comments on the various components. The topic of this message is whether we should add the following items to the Advanced Module of the WEMSI personal wilderness medical kit: 1 - urinary catheter ("Foley") leg bag 1 - Heimlich one-way valve 1 - Foley or similar urinary catheter The current kit includes a 6.5 mm endotracheal tube, which can also be used as a chest tube if necessary. If used as a chest tube, however, and there is blood as well as air coming out, the blood will simply drain into the patient packaging, which certainly isn't ideal. It is a standard practice on many medical helicopters to attach a chest tube to a Heimlich valve, which is a small (about 3 cm. diameter by 10 cm long) plastic cylinder, with a rubber oneway valve in the center, and universal adapters ("Christmas tree adapters") on either end. One end of the Heimlich valve attaches to the chest tube, and the other can be attached to the Foley leg bag. One cuts off the standard Foley adapter on the Foley leg bag, and inserts the universal adapter ("Christmas tree adapter") on the Hemilich valve. The Foley leg bag can also be used for its intended purpose, too - and adding a single Foley catheter makes the person who carries the bag capable of putting in a urinary catheter, too, a useful tool in a multiply-injured patient -- and having the Foley bag means keeping the packaging dry, too. One can argue that it's worth carrying a male external urinary device ("condom cath," "Texas cath"). However, at least in my mind, the main reason for carrying this is that the medic, nurse or doctor carrying the kit doesn't feel like putting in a Foley, despite the advantages of the Foley over the Texas cath: - doesn't fall off - gives an accurate record of urinary output regardless of whether the person wants to urinate or not. We would appreciate the thoughts of the list members on this subject. Thank you. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:54:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.39]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:52:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Bighoss19@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id 5MSBa21205 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 13:51:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Big hoss19 Message-ID: <918a8796.35631816@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:51:17 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_895686677_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: a362e9200a4287f7d54cd58478f58a18 X-PMFLAGS: 570949760 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_895686677_boundary Content-ID: <0_895686677@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-05-19 20:15:27 EDT, you write: > ralson@wfubmc.edu Here are some thoughts from Paul C. Harvey ( the police chief not the news guy) on the topic of cisd after a major event. if you have a question or comment you can e-mail him at mayhempro@aol.com the file is in text format, if this is a problem let me know. --part0_895686677_boundary Content-ID: <0_895686677@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: text/plain; name="AFEWRA~1.TXT" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline A few Ramblings It is a kids visit to hell! Loss is hell! To love and lose hurts! When your present situation exceeds previous experience and there is noth= ing to relate to =96 there is loss. Which emotion will you address first? The frustration of not understandi= ng or the anger for not feeling sad. The hate of adults who have let the kid down(in their eyes)? The physical= loss and fear of not knowing what may come next? The inability to understand the UN-understandable. How can a child understand something that adults cant explain? We talk a= lot and say little. We train the kid to depend on us =96 but now what? We can undo what is done. Areas that need attention: Death & dyeing Value of Life Value = of death Living and dyeing The prolonged death experience: The sudden death experience When to start teaching about visits to hell? Hopefully, before the trip. = What tools can be developed for confronting these visits? What tools and= skills can be given to the kids at any age. Where do you go to visit hell? School, home, traveling, You stay home and= it hits others away from home? What are the specific losses? Direct loss: Death to one or more family members, schoolmates, teachers= or others close to the kid? Perhaps the loss is not human =96 a plant =96 gold fish =96 other pet or = loss of personal property =96 from teddy bear to everything! Indirect loss: A relative distant to the kid. Persons in town or in sc= hool but not well known to the kid? What stage is set for the kid to respond to =96 The loss is one aspect = =96 but the kid is looking with a very open mind to grasp onto something. What is there =96 the hysterical family = =96 The threatening and demanding parent, cursing everything =96 The overwhelmed and disoriented family =96= No direct stage =96 its all gone. What foundations have been built =96 What internal resources been pre established What community resources are already in place and what could be set up What professional resources Note: the emergency services are frequently trained in critical incident = debriefings =96 The Hospice(spelling) has a great reputation and likely already has infor= mation on hand! I would like to relate an incident: I was assisting with a group of old= er boy scouts who had outgrown most of the program and were looking to move on. They suggested that they for= m a search & rescue team to go off into the woods and find people. Well, my years with the emergency ser= vices said that a good number of searches become recoveries. I told the kids that I would not expose them = to the hell of finding a Dead Body while on a search. They responded =96 If you are concerned that this expo= sure would be something we could not handle =96 TEACH US TO HANDLE IT! The kid presenting this challenge = had loss his mother to illness and HE suggested Hospice =96 which had served his family well during the = crisis. I accepted the challenge: today =96 One is a part owner and medic in a bi= g city, One is an EMT =96 past pres. of an amb squad, One is a father of 2 little kids and one is still lost in s= pace somewhere. This challenge is perhaps the most valid approach to the issue. We did so= me teaching =96 we met with pros and we visited a working funeral home and other activities to introduce a= nd prepare the kids for the hell that was a head and from which they could not be sheltered. Good luck =96 I think the INDEX is the way to go =96 there is already a l= ot of information out there =96 Supporting the agencies wanting to introduce these subjects and resources= into the school systems will provide a valid resource when needed. The little handout booklet sound g= ood =96 but It would generally be too little too late! Call frequently =96 I=92 work with anyone on a project like this!!!!!!!!!= !!!! P.C. Harvey =96 Ret FD Chief Police Chief Emergency Management Director Medical & Fire Instructor 413 229 8393 Police line 413 229 7710 Fax --part0_895686677_boundary-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:17:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from isnet.is.bgsm.edu (root@isnet.is.wfubmc.edu [152.11.118.6]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slip-32-100-44-232.nc.us.ibm.net (slip-32-100-44-232.nc.us.ibm.net [32.100.44.232]) by isnet.is.bgsm.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA24026 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by slip-32-100-44-232.nc.us.ibm.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD8362.AB61F800@slip-32-100-44-232.nc.us.ibm.net>; Tue, 19 May 1998 20:14:04 -0400 Message-ID: <01BD8362.AB61F800@slip-32-100-44-232.nc.us.ibm.net> From: "Roy L. Alson, MD" To: "'wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu'" Subject: RE: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:13:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD8362.AB7BE8A0" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 30bf4c9b8f7ad6e29c7ca71f658e98ab X-PMFLAGS: 570949760 0 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD8362.AB7BE8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Tim Kovacs [SMTP:tkovacs@goodnet.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 12:49 PM To: WEMS News Subject: Re: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? I am on a task group in Phoenix with the Phx Fire Department (FEMA)..., TERROS Behavioral Health and Crisis and the county Crisis system to = develop an enhanced CISD response for biological warfare, MCI, et al. Our early research will include the children's issue. I will keep you updated = within the next several months on what we have. [Roy L. Alson, MD] In Regard to psychological support for children = after disasters, Thomas Haizlip, MD; Director of Child and Adolescent = Psychiatry at Dorothea Dix Hospital in Raleigh, NC has developed = materials for children and health care personnel to use after a = disaster. This includes informational materials, as well as coloring = books, etc. We are using this material with our DMAT. Two weeks ago, a = tornado struck the western portion of our county. On day 2 of = operations, we, along with personnel from the Red Cross and other = community agencies used these materials as a guide to set up a program = for the children in the impact area. His address is: Dorothea Dix Hospital; South Boylan Ave. Raleigh, NC = 27603 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD8362.AB7BE8A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgQAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAYAIAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAMAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAdQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHdpbGRlcm5lc3MtZW1l cmdlbmN5LW1lZGljaW5lQGxpc3QucGl0dC5lZHUAU01UUAB3aWxkZXJuZXNzLWVtZXJnZW5jeS1t ZWRpY2luZUBsaXN0LnBpdHQuZWR1AAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAsAAAA d2lsZGVybmVzcy1lbWVyZ2VuY3ktbWVkaWNpbmVAbGlzdC5waXR0LmVkdQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8G AAAAHgABMAEAAAAuAAAAJ3dpbGRlcm5lc3MtZW1lcmdlbmN5LW1lZGljaW5lQGxpc3QucGl0dC5l ZHUnAAAAAgELMAEAAAAxAAAAU01UUDpXSUxERVJORVNTLUVNRVJHRU5DWS1NRURJQ0lORUBMSVNU LlBJVFQuRURVAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAACwAAAB3aWxkZXJuZXNzLWVtZXJn ZW5jeS1tZWRpY2luZUBsaXN0LnBpdHQuZWR1AAIB918BAAAAdQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0B D1QCAAAAAHdpbGRlcm5lc3MtZW1lcmdlbmN5LW1lZGljaW5lQGxpc3QucGl0dC5lZHUAU01UUAB3 aWxkZXJuZXNzLWVtZXJnZW5jeS1tZWRpY2luZUBsaXN0LnBpdHQuZWR1AAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/ XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAADy58BBIABACEAAABSRTogVy1FTUVEIENJU0QgYWZ0ZXIgYSB0 b3JuYWRvPwDcCQEFgAMADgAAAM4HBQATABQADQAoAAIAOAEBIIADAA4AAADOBwUAEwAUAA0AKAAC ADgBAQmAAQAhAAAAMTEyNDc3NEQ1NEVGRDExMTk5NDhFNDI3RkRDMEUwMDgAEwcBA5AGANAHAAAh AAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AGDS kSSEg70BHgBwAAEAAAAhAAAAUkU6IFctRU1FRCBDSVNEIGFmdGVyIGEgdG9ybmFkbz8AAAAAAgFx AAEAAAAWAAAAAb2Dg7NtTXckEu9UEdGZSOQn/cDgCAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8M AQAAABIAAAByYWxzb25Ad2Z1Ym1jLmVkdQAAAAMABhAqgS3XAwAHEOQDAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAAAt LS0tLU9SSUdJTkFMTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tRlJPTTpUSU1LT1ZBQ1NTTVRQOlRLT1ZBQ1NAR09PRE5F VENPTVNFTlQ6TU9OREFZLE1BWTExLDE5OTgxMjo0OVBNVE86V0VNU05FAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAqgQA AKYEAACKBgAATFpGdfxRvksDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM50B9yACpAPjAgBjaArA4HNl dDAgBxMCgwBQoRB2cHJxMhF2fQqA2QjIIDsJbw4wNQKACoHsdWMAUAsDYxISC8UKsYcKhAqECzBs aTM2AUBXFpAXMQNgdAWQdBIEMag2IC0aAk8FEGcLgIcHQAXQB5BzYWdlGgMfF0YZFBczCzEZFmkt MYw0NAFAGGAxODABQKMM0B2jYiBGA2E6DIOGYhFgB2EgS292ANABBCBbU01UUDp0omsgE0BnbwRw bhFA8i4FoG1dF0Ue0AZgAjCFHzdNAiBkYXksBdARI7AgMTEj0DE5OQI4JCAyOjQ5IFCSTSIXVG8f N1dFBeHHB8EQwCIndWJqGUEfNyhSZTomcC0mkEVE0CBDSVMpMGEBgASQGSmQIHQFsBqgZG8/7xuv HLoYZBbbSSmQH+ACIGEp8mFzayAJwAhgcCYgC4AlEGhvCfBpeJIgA/B0aCoQaGUvEYkvgEZpCXAg RGUKsUZ0B4ACMCAoRiaQQRQpLjHQLBdEVEVSJFJPBfBCZREAdmlzBbAasUhlB0AvwQBwZH8pQAUQ AJAEIDQCL/IFoHXHAjAkEDRFc3lzGTAf4KUqICABAHZlCQBwF0SnA5EJ8BEAbmMJgCApRNkJcHNw AiARMCACEAXArmIzMAkAGoBjGrF3CsD6ZgrAZSPRKVAj0BFAKZBwbC4gTwhwN6AKwGy+eRdEOKE7 sRDwL5FsAyBdC4BjCkABADTkaAMQZPkJcG4nBCAEAQpQO1AtoK0882sJ4C7QeQhgIC7A/yOgGTA0 IC+iC4EXUy/yIZB+eAVAETA20DNSBGACMGjbBCAt8XcRAAVAdzAQMwH/PvAXSxaSDDIrFiBgCAAk EGJMO1BBbHMCICPRRP5dAzAfkAxAEWA/EAOgKKD2ZwsRNnJwNhAQ8DmXPtC+cDjQACA5Iz4GKZVk BADrLlApwXMj0FQvMADABCCqSAtwehhgcEaSOzCw5zCBGVAFsW9mKUA+EjPzukEqcGwHkDgAMUFQ SFLZBzB0ciQQQzFEBbAZIM8wACoATMAvgEhvOMAvsKsasS7xUgdAZRpwaCPQ/E5DQ4EEIDa1OBEA wCnB/wcxBCBJrDQRUAEzwjngMJG/UqARIAIgIZADIDaBdTkB/ymmStY7UEtxNIE9RVfCOTH/UuEz MBqiUucj0EvBQ2A9EbdLwQjjC4BnOWAhYGtLUfURQGNXYVdWQTCRViBbAn9AwQQgUuYvlAhhMLAx oFTtV2J3NpBDYGVbcCmQIVD/WeEqFjYAT0AWAC5wL/JDYP9LEgOgSVJY8U1CXhI1NFdh9k8DoCOh IBLwYgJVUVjT/0tRQ2BZ4QkAWxEvo1VYA1J/L+MooDQiUJA0lE/iYlJt/m01UC+wT2EbMDfwCJAE ID9WITTTOQFS6EvBKgBndf5pPZJgMTsBLsEqABkBCcD/LcE5Mj3KLuIv8gdwCrAZUNVcMmFD20g0 gmQ+QQQR3wQAKMBPv1DCTKBTCGAvwf5CReAPARFwQ7E4MFFKY2B6NxiQMxi6ODAXRBOBAAF1kAAA AwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMCBbFOeCg70BQAAIMGDSkSSEg70BCwABgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMA BoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUA AAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAwgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAM4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAESACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00 /TcAABrt ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD8362.AB7BE8A0-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:25:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 18:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [208.194.198.38] (balshiva1-38.flash.net [208.194.198.38]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20437 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 17:22:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3403B851.5E81B30A@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 05:20:06 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Dr. Kevin Gerold" Subject: W-EMED B1 for bites Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 27552cf6d924cf228e9e5af6f0872a71 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Query: Karl Neumann in last Summer's Wilderness Medical Letter (Vol. 14, No 3, 1997) reported that Vit. B1, though not effective in deterring biting insects, may reduce the skin irritation after biting occurs. Anyone out there with experience with this treatment? Anyone care to suggest a dose? Thanks Kevin Gerold, DO, MA Univesity of Maryland Medical Center R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center 22 S. Greene Street Baltimore, MD 21201 (410) 328-1808 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This teletransmission contains confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or the entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this teletransmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this teletransmission in error, please notify the the sender by the number listed above. THE INTERCEPTION OF A TELETRANSMISSION COULD BE A VIOLOATION OF MARYLAND AND FEDERAL LAW Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 16 May 1998 16:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 16 May 1998 16:58:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 16 May 1998 16:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 16 May 1998 16:57:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 16 May 1998 16:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 16 May 1998 16:56:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emed.upmc.edu (pphled03.dwing.upmc.edu [128.147.175.164]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Sat, 16 May 1998 16:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EMERG_MED/SpoolDir by emed.upmc.edu (Mercury 1.21); 16 May 98 16:16:06 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by EMERG_MED (Mercury 1.30); 16 May 98 16:16:00 -0500 Received: from pmp4em34 by emed.upmc.edu (Mercury 1.30); 16 May 98 16:15:55 -0500 From: "Jack T. Grandey" To: "WEM" Subject: W-EMED News item of interest Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 16:56:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bd810d$1ae030a0$7b169380@pmp4em34.mckee.upmc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD80EB.93CE90A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 0714050871474b5e542fc1f41b85a6f3 X-PMFLAGS: 570950016 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD80EB.93CE90A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following appeared in the Open Airways column of the May/June issue of Emergency: SAR Device Questioned A device marketed to the search and rescue community as capable of detecting human heart beats may be ineffective. DielectroKinetic Laboratories of Washington, DC, claims that its DKL LifeGuard device can detect the ultra-low-frequency electrical signals generated by the human heart. The company says the device, available in three models which range in price from $5,995 to $13, 995 is effective through concrete, steel, earth and up to 10 feet of water. However, a series of double-blind tests by the Department of Energy's Sandia Labs revealed that the device "failed to meet its published specifications and its performance was no better than random chance." Howard Sidman, DKL's chief executive manager, disputes Sandia's findings. :they gave us one test which we told them was the extreme range of our equipment and did not allow us to use the equipment as designed," he says. However, according to Sandia, its tests were designed to allow the device to perform well within the product's published operational parameters. The test operator was provided by the manufacturer and was a "high-ranking member" of DKL management. According to Sidman, DKL is re-testing its device at an independent laboratory. Dr. Keith Conover, clinical assistant professor in the Department of Emergency Medicine at the University of Pittsburgh and past chair of the Appalachian Region Mountain Rescue Association, began to suspect the device might be ineffective after attending a demonstration presented by DKL associates. The claims made for the device, says Conover, are "by comparison to the known principles of electromagnetic physics, electronic engineering, comparative zoology, and electrophysiology of the heart, flatly incredible." Sidman says Conover "doesn't know what he is talking about." The Sandia testers' comments on the physics of the device match Conover's, however. They point out, for example, that the 15-inch antenna on the LifeGuard is "entirely inadequate" for receiving signals in the 1.2 to 2.0 hertz wavelength, that of the human heart. "Not only may public safety agencies waste money on this questionable if not useless technique," says Conover, "they may depend upon it instead of other subject location devices...and people may die as a result." The FBI is aware of the Department of Energy tests on the device. There is no official word from the Bureau as to whether an investigation is under way. Vari MacNeil JTG Jack T. Grandey, NREMT-P Institute for Quality & Medical Management Operations Director UPMC Health System Wilderness EMS Institute http://www.upmc.edu/ http://www.wemsi.org/ ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD80EB.93CE90A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 


 
The following appeared in the Open = Airways=20 column of the May/June issue of Emergency:
 
SAR Device=20 Questioned
 
A device marketed to the search = and rescue=20 community as capable of detecting human heart beats may be=20 ineffective.
 
DielectroKinetic Laboratories of = Washington,=20 DC, claims that its DKL LifeGuard device can detect the = ultra-low-frequency=20 electrical signals generated by the human heart.  The company = says the=20 device, available in three models which range in price from $5,995 = to $13,=20 995 is effective through concrete, steel, earth and up to 10 feet of = water.
 
However, a series of double-blind = tests by the=20 Department of Energy's Sandia Labs revealed that the device = "failed to=20 meet its published specifications and its performance was no better = than=20 random chance."
 
Howard Sidman, DKL's chief = executive manager,=20 disputes Sandia's findings.  :they gave us one test which we = told them=20 was the extreme range of our equipment and did not allow us to use = the=20 equipment as designed," he says.
 
However, according to Sandia, its = tests were=20 designed to allow the device to perform well within the product's = published=20 operational parameters.  The test operator was provided by the=20 manufacturer and was a "high-ranking member" of DKL=20 management.
 
According to Sidman, DKL is = re-testing its=20 device at an independent laboratory.
 
Dr. Keith Conover, clinical = assistant=20 professor in the Department of Emergency Medicine at the University = of=20 Pittsburgh and past chair of the Appalachian Region Mountain Rescue=20 Association, began to suspect the device might be ineffective after=20 attending a demonstration presented by DKL = associates.
 
The claims made for the device, = says Conover,=20 are "by comparison to the known principles of electromagnetic = physics,=20 electronic engineering, comparative zoology, and electrophysiology = of the=20 heart, flatly incredible."
 
Sidman says Conover "doesn't = know what he=20 is talking about."
 
The Sandia testers' comments on = the physics of=20 the device match Conover's, however.  They point out, for = example, that=20 the 15-inch antenna on the LifeGuard is "entirely = inadequate" for=20 receiving signals in the 1.2 to 2.0 hertz wavelength, that of the = human=20 heart.
 
"Not only may public safety = agencies=20 waste money on this questionable if not useless technique," = says=20 Conover, "they may depend upon it instead of other subject = location=20 devices...and people may die as a result."
 
The FBI is aware of the Department = of Energy=20 tests on the device.  There is no official word from the Bureau = as to=20 whether an investigation is under way.
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;       =20 Vari MacNeil
 
 
JTG
 

Jack T. Grandey, = NREMT-P=20
Institute for = Quality &=20 Medical=20 = Management          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;=20 Operations Director
         UPMC = Health=20 = System           &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;     =20 Wilderness EMS Institute
         http://www.upmc.edu/     &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =    =20 http://www.wemsi.org/

 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD80EB.93CE90A0-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pop.goodnet.com (pop.goodnet.com [207.98.129.100]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:46:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from PC_.goodnet.com (phx-ts21-9.goodnet.com [207.98.133.138]) by pop.goodnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA01248 for ; Mon, 11 May 1998 10:48:25 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <354F3E02.4C5B@cnnet.com> References: Conversation <199805050348.XAA29770@titan.tcn.net> with last message <354F3E02.4C5B@cnnet.com> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "WEMS News" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Tim Kovacs" Subject: Re: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? Date: Mon, 11 May 98 09:49:21 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: cf742295308317bc2123c2e928a391bf X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 I am on a task group in Phoenix with the Phx Fire Department (FEMA)..., TERROS Behavioral Health and Crisis and the county Crisis system to develop an enhanced CISD response for biological warfare, MCI, et al. Our early research will include the children's issue. I will keep you updated within the next several months on what we have. "You can't teach people to rescue in the mountains until they have learnt to climb... ...It is a number of small points which have little significance individually that, considered together, spell danger to the experienced rescuer." Hamish MacInnes Tim Kovacs. tkovacs@goodnet.com Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 11 May 1998 07:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 11 May 1998 07:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 11 May 1998 07:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 11 May 1998 07:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 11 May 1998 07:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.clarityconnect.com (mail.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.5]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 11 May 1998 07:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ndh (207.198.30.239) by mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Mon, 11 May 1998 07:14:55 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980511071011.008fa514@lightlink.com> X-Sender: ndh@lightlink.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:10:24 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: nigel dyson-hudson Subject: an other modular med. pack supplier Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: b4107cd502abb92b151ab8b40891d7db X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Here is an other modular medical pack supplier. http://www.conterra-inc.com/ nigel dyson-hudson, emt West Danby Fire & Rescue, Tompkins County Search & Rescue Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:44:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:43:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vnet.net (pool-207-205-129-28.atln.grid.net [207.205.129.28]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id UAA00130 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35564220.C625A330@vnet.net> Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 20:11:12 -0400 From: Sam Chewning X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Need online source for drug information - PDR? References: <199804291706.NAA13960@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <199804300606.XAA09896@greatdane.webnexus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: f8c84e950a864010e411eac517ce1871 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 David C. Kovar wrote: > I'm trying to update my medical kit with documentation on the various drugs > I have, their interactions, warnings, etc. Simply clipping the information > from the box, or including the product information sheet, isn't desireable. > I'd like to sum up the information ahead of time and print it all on one > sheet so it contains the information I need in a easy to use manner. > > If anyone can suggest a good web site for looking up drug information that > is available to the layman, I would greatly appreciate it. I've found > several, but they require that you be a physician, be from Duke (as an > example), etc. > > Thanks very much. > > -David > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu The PDR is available in CD format. The information can be copied or edited for there Sam (caveman6@vnet.net) Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 9 May 1998 07:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 9 May 1998 07:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 9 May 1998 07:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 9 May 1998 07:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 9 May 1998 07:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.34]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 9 May 1998 07:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BjmPAc@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id 5RLSa14222 for ; Sat, 9 May 1998 07:37:18 -0400 (EDT) From: BjmPAc Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 07:37:18 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 238e5d2f8e673d064c5ea14175b8a438 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Harper packs are fabulous. I've had one for over 10 years. Do they have a catalog? I don't live in the Bay Area anymore. best, Barbara, PA-C Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 9 May 1998 09:25:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Sat, 9 May 1998 09:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Sat, 9 May 1998 09:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Sat, 9 May 1998 09:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Sat, 9 May 1998 09:22:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Sat, 9 May 1998 09:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billp.sirius.com (dynamic7.pm02.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.71] (may be forged)) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id GAA03561 for ; Sat, 9 May 1998 06:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805091321.GAA03561@proxy3.ba.best.com> X-Sender: billp@shell14.ba.best.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 06:23:42 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Bill Person Subject: Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 74d86b022fee6cc34d0cd3f8e7b10373 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Harper just has a two page flyer as far as I know. Steve Nash does the nation-wide tour making most of the major events. Just drop him a call. At 07:37 AM 5/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >Harper packs are fabulous. I've had one for over 10 years. > >Do they have a catalog? I don't live in the Bay Area anymore. > >best, >Barbara, PA-C >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:20:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Bighoss19@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id 5GKAa02431 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 13:17:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Big hoss19 Message-ID: <2cf04bb4.35533e24@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 13:17:23 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_894647843_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 538808ad08e81b1cdb4b240d5ebad07c X-PMFLAGS: 570949760 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_894647843_boundary Content-ID: <0_894647843@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-05-06 17:32:22 EDT, Mayhempro writes: > This area is wide open and there is a lot of information scattered around. I > have worked at a school for special need kids for over 30 years and there is > NO one answer to a complex issue. Kids exposed to horror have no problems and > those on the edge - go over the edge and don't come back - > Because of the nature of the issue - I strongly suggest that the effort be > put into developing a rescourse index (computer based) . By doing this you > are not reinventing the wheel, your information can be always up to date and > get the persons with the SPECIFIC NEED to those with timely and SPECIFIC > INFORMATION. > > I am droping out of this e mail for now and will put a few notes into an > attached file in another e mail don't go a way! --part0_894647843_boundary Content-ID: <0_894647843@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Mayhempro Return-path: To: Bighoss19@aol.com Subject: Re: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:32:22 EDT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This area is wide open and there is a lot of information scattered around. I have worked at a school for special need kids for over 30 years and there is NO one answer to a complex issue. Kids exposed to horror have no problems and those on the edge - go over the edge and don't come back - Because of the nature of the issue - I strongly suggest that the effort be put into developing a rescourse index (computer based) . By doing this you are not reinventing the wheel, your information can be always up to date and get the persons with the SPECIFIC NEED to those with timely and SPECIFIC INFORMATION. I am droping out of this e mail for now and will put a few notes into an attached file in another e mail don't go a way! --part0_894647843_boundary-- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:24:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:24:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.38]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from JSilver374@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id 5EIYa29997 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:23:06 +2000 (EDT) From: JSilver374 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:23:06 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: c9eafcf0f85d8834d0bbd8d484b49439 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Another very good case is a new product put out by Gregory called the LDR Trauma Fanny pack. I use it for ski patrol and it's one of the nicest packs of it's kind I've seen. Nice and roomy with 4 zipper mesh pockets to keep stuff organized. I got it thru DynaMed in Carlsbad CA (800)854-2706. Gregory can be reached at (800)477-3420 Hope this helps, Jonathan Silver, WEMT Highland Park, NJ Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greatdane.webnexus.com (greatdane.webnexus.com [165.227.96.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 23:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kovar.webnexus.com (mg130-077.ricochet.net [204.179.130.77]) by greatdane.webnexus.com (8.8.7/8.8.5/WN-1.2) with SMTP id UAA14097; Thu, 7 May 1998 20:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805080349.UAA14097@greatdane.webnexus.com> X-Sender: kovar@mail.netnoc.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 20:43:09 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "David C. Kovar" Subject: Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit In-Reply-To: <199805080254.TAA08456@proxy4.ba.best.com> References: <199805080141.SAA12067@greatdane.webnexus.com> <354E79DD.41BEF19D@vnet.net> <199805040423.VAA25035@greatdane.webnexus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 72da28d0e64108598516e0ca0e87951e X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Cool. That's what I get for trusting PacBell. Thank you very much. -David At 07:55 PM 5/7/98 -0700, Bill Person wrote: >The area code for Mt. Tam Sports is 415 not 650. I have talked to Steve >Nash and he is very much in business. Have dealt with him for a number of >years for National Ski Patrol and have highest regards for him and for his >Harper Packs. > >At 06:35 PM 5/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Alas, it looks like these guys are out of business. The area code is now >>650 and the phone number is out of service with no forwarding. If you have >>one of their packs and like it, take care of it because you probably cannot >>replace it.... >> >>-David >> >>>David, I would agree that everyone has "the" answer, but not everyone >agrees. >>> >>>So here is another "answer". >>>Harper packs. Sold by: >>> >>> Mt. Tam Sports >>> Box 111 >>> Kentfield, CA 94914-0111 >>> (415) 461-8111 >>> >>>Good luck, Sam >>> >>> >>>Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >>>To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >>>as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >>>Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu >>> >>Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >>To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >>as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >>Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu >> > >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 22:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 22:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 7 May 1998 22:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 22:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 22:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 22:55:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from billp.sirius.com (dynamic36.pm06.sf3d.best.com [209.24.235.100] (may be forged)) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id TAA08456 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 19:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805080254.TAA08456@proxy4.ba.best.com> X-Sender: billp@shell14.ba.best.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:55:00 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Bill Person Subject: Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit In-Reply-To: <199805080141.SAA12067@greatdane.webnexus.com> References: <354E79DD.41BEF19D@vnet.net> <199805040423.VAA25035@greatdane.webnexus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: eec87fb84b371f7ecfe99bffcf82c0c6 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 The area code for Mt. Tam Sports is 415 not 650. I have talked to Steve Nash and he is very much in business. Have dealt with him for a number of years for National Ski Patrol and have highest regards for him and for his Harper Packs. At 06:35 PM 5/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Alas, it looks like these guys are out of business. The area code is now >650 and the phone number is out of service with no forwarding. If you have >one of their packs and like it, take care of it because you probably cannot >replace it.... > >-David > >>David, I would agree that everyone has "the" answer, but not everyone agrees. >> >>So here is another "answer". >>Harper packs. Sold by: >> >> Mt. Tam Sports >> Box 111 >> Kentfield, CA 94914-0111 >> (415) 461-8111 >> >>Good luck, Sam >> >> >>Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >>To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >>as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >>Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu >> >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.43]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 21:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc06.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 21:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 7 May 1998 21:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 21:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 21:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greatdane.webnexus.com (greatdane.webnexus.com [165.227.96.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 21:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kovar.webnexus.com (mg130-077.ricochet.net [204.179.130.77]) by greatdane.webnexus.com (8.8.7/8.8.5/WN-1.2) with SMTP id SAA12067; Thu, 7 May 1998 18:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805080141.SAA12067@greatdane.webnexus.com> X-Sender: kovar@mail.netnoc.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:35:38 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "David C. Kovar" Subject: Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit In-Reply-To: <354E79DD.41BEF19D@vnet.net> References: <199805040423.VAA25035@greatdane.webnexus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 0846c7b12e79002ef52ff27a2c4baa1e X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Alas, it looks like these guys are out of business. The area code is now 650 and the phone number is out of service with no forwarding. If you have one of their packs and like it, take care of it because you probably cannot replace it.... -David >David, I would agree that everyone has "the" answer, but not everyone agrees. > >So here is another "answer". >Harper packs. Sold by: > > Mt. Tam Sports > Box 111 > Kentfield, CA 94914-0111 > (415) 461-8111 > >Good luck, Sam > > >Do not reproduce without author's express permission. >To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" >as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu >Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 13:26:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 13:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 7 May 1998 13:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 13:26:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Thu, 7 May 1998 13:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hermes.iupui.edu (hermes.iupui.edu [134.68.220.31]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 13:23:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lynx.uits.iupui.edu (lynx.uits.iupui.edu [134.68.220.22]) by hermes.iupui.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21300 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 12:23:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by lynx.uits.iupui.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 7 May 1998 12:23:46 -0500 Message-ID: <9D916278299FD111A7E100805FA7C2BA8709F9@cheetah.uits.iupui.edu> From: "Crabtree, Elaine" To: "'wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu'" Subject: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? -Reply Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:23:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: a092708b407b847f3f37e0abe986f280 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Hi Bernie: you wrote: >>>I've had a request for expert help from someone who is interested in producing a booklet for parents on how to help their kiddies deal with the aftermath of a tornado.<<< The Red Cross does a couple publications like that, although I'm not sure if they're specific to tornadoes, or are geared to cover any type of disaster. There's a booklet for parents on how to help kids, and there's also one for the kids themselves. Elaine Crabtree Creative Services, Medical Educational Resources Program Indiana University School of Medicine Indianapolis, IN, USA ecrabtre@iupui.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:51:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Rt66.com (mack.rt66.com [198.59.162.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 15:48:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (abrain@localhost) by Rt66.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA12984 for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 13:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:46:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Andy Brainard To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED State Wilderness EMS status In-Reply-To: <199805061835.OAA05620@titan.tcn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 73569c86b7bde7331b8632f4b762e962 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 I wold also like to see a copy of the WEMS laws in maine. There is quite a debate about the potential for such laws here in New Mexico. andy On Wed, 6 May 1998, Bernie Roche wrote: > At 11:00 AM 06/05/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Kieth, > >I can send you the laws of WEMS in Maine if you want it. > >James > > > Hi, James: > > Send it straight to me. Keith will just forward it anyway. > > Thanks, > > Bernie > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- X-cs: From: Self To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu,asrc-bod@virginia.edu,asrc-medical@virginia.edu Subject: State Wilderness EMS status Cc: EMS-L@listserv.ACNS.NWU.EDU,sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com,NCRC@ontosystems.com (NCRC Discussion List) Reply-to: kconover+@pitt.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:25:19 As part of its committment to provide useful information to the Wilderness EMS community in North America, WEMSI's web pages (www.wemsi.org) will start carrying information about how EMS laws and regulations affect WEMS in the various states and provinces of the U.S. and Canada. (Information on other countries will be welcomed as well . . . ) Since we have extensive information on Pennsylvania, our first set of pages are about WEMS in this state. We will start posting information on other states as it becomes available and can be formatted properly -- a "FAQ" of medico-legal aspects of WEMS in general will also be available at www.wemsi.org in the next few weeks. Thank you. -- End -- Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Bighoss19@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id 5GZVa02743 for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 14:49:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Big hoss19 Message-ID: <23c1ce81.354f5f4a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:49:45 EDT To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 27333e9f4a2e9a820b4ce4505debafe7 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 I have sent the org. request for info to my dad (mayhempro@aol.com) he has worked in a funeral home, is PD Chief & Emg. Management Dir. He has also worked with childeren for about 30 years. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pobox.com (ehdup-q-12.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.22.102]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 11:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <354F3B9D.2BC025C7@pobox.com> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 11:17:33 -0500 From: DP/EJ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit References: <199805040423.VAA25035@greatdane.webnexus.com> <354E79DD.41BEF19D@vnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: bda5dd95bec299cc42613f07caa4fae0 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 While you are designing a medical kit, make it latex-free. Most manufacturers of natural rubber latex-containing medical equipment are substituting synthetic materials wherever possible. By looking for the "latex free" labels, or by contacting the manufacturers (they usually have 800 numbers on product package), you can easily create a kit safe to those of us with latex allergy. The last thing I need if I'm injured in the wild is to develop anaphylaxis because of my rescuer's equipment. The FDA has mandated labeling of all medical products that contain natural rubber latex, but it doesn't go into effect until September 30, 1998. Dan Peden Pittsburgh, Pa. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ua1.cnnet.com (cnnet.com [207.229.6.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 12:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.229.6.117] by ua1.cnnet.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/1.aikr) with ESMTP id pa326991 for ; Tue, 5 May 1998 10:27:55 -0600 Message-ID: <354F3E02.4C5B@cnnet.com> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 10:27:46 -0600 From: s+j nolan X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? References: <199805050348.XAA29770@titan.tcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 68bff67e9ace3dfd6a98ef04884300fd X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Hi :) I think good things to put in would be general tips on how children deal with grief issues, as they would be dealing with a great deal of loss. Any counsellors or funeral directors out there, or anyone who would know more about this ?? Julie BA, RN Bernie Roche wrote: > > Hi: > > I've had a request for expert help from someone who is interested in > producing a booklet for parents on how to help their kiddies deal with the > aftermath of a tornado. Any of our CISD (or anyone else) willing to > discuss this? > > Best Wishes, > > Bernie Roche, RN, BScN, W-EMT, OSJ > WEMSI Web Site Administrator > > http://www.wemsi.org/ > broche@tcn.net > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 23:28:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 23:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 4 May 1998 23:27:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 23:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 23:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from titan.tcn.net (root@titan.tcn.net [199.166.4.2]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 23:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Pbroche (samsui@ppp-197.m2-5.tor.ican.net [142.154.17.197]) by titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA29770 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 23:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805050348.XAA29770@titan.tcn.net> X-Sender: broche@titan.tcn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 23:24:33 -0400 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: Bernie Roche Subject: W-EMED CISD after a tornado? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 49b89dbde003acfc7de38ca9bfb7fa98 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Hi: I've had a request for expert help from someone who is interested in producing a booklet for parents on how to help their kiddies deal with the aftermath of a tornado. Any of our CISD (or anyone else) willing to discuss this? Best Wishes, Bernie Roche, RN, BScN, W-EMT, OSJ WEMSI Web Site Administrator http://www.wemsi.org/ broche@tcn.net Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 22:33:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 22:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 4 May 1998 22:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 22:31:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 22:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 22:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vnet.net (pool-207-205-130-132.atln.grid.net [207.205.130.132]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA21319 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 22:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <354E79DD.41BEF19D@vnet.net> Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 22:30:53 -0400 From: Sam Chewning X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit References: <199805040423.VAA25035@greatdane.webnexus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: ff49660dcea6f6d10f58e7563e3132a0 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 David C. Kovar wrote: > I am in the middle of my yearly task of refining my medical kits. This was > brought about by the fact that I am now doing emergency medicine at > concerts and need yet another kit. I also just took a Wilderness First > Responder course, which provided a lot of insight and information with > respect to medical kits. > > Medical kits are something of a religious issue, or at least a very > personal one, but I'd like to find sources of information about them. I > found WEMSI's web page, but the information there is either two years or > four years out of date, depending on which date on the page you believe. If > anyone has something of similar quality that is more up to date, I would > greatly appreciate it. > > I am also looking for a source of a good package to carry the kit in. > (Another religious issue.) Ideally, I'd like to find something that nested, > starting with a kit that fits into one hand and works it's way up to a hip > pack. The most appropriate I've found so far is from Life Assist, but they > do not nest. The Adventure Medical (Mountain Medic Kit) bag might be ok, > but I cannot find one to put my hands on at the moment. I'm wary of keeping > one kit in my car, one in my SAR pack, and one for the concert medical > stuff because then I have three kits I need to keep up to date. > > Thanks, in advance! > > -David > David, I would agree that everyone has "the" answer, but not everyone agrees. So here is another "answer". Harper packs. Sold by: Mt. Tam Sports Box 111 Kentfield, CA 94914-0111 (415) 461-8111 Good luck, Sam Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:32:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from warhol.informatics.sunysb.edu (root@warhol.informatics.sunysb.edu [129.49.137.212]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.2.2.1) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from informatics.informatics.sunysb.edu (informatics.informatics.sunysb.edu [129.49.137.7]) by warhol.informatics.sunysb.edu (8.8.6/8.7.2) with ESMTP id JAA12287; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from INFORMATICS/SpoolDir by informatics.informatics.sunysb.edu (Mercury 1.31); 4 May 98 09:29:59 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by INFORMATICS (Mercury 1.31); 4 May 98 09:29:36 -0500 From: "Gregory Wayrich [UMC-EMS]" Organization: SUNY Stony Brook To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:29:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit In-reply-to: <199805040423.VAA25035@greatdane.webnexus.com> References: <01bd745e$ecf578e0$9e3e9380@pmp4em34.mckee.upmc.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <346DFB365E8@informatics.informatics.sunysb.edu> Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 43650ecbcb737258e805c3794d79354c X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Try Conterra. They are an equipment company that specializes in rescue gear. Rick Lipke there is very knowledgable. Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.1.2.1) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 00:26:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.11) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 00:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 4 May 1998 00:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 00:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID ; Mon, 4 May 1998 00:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greatdane.webnexus.com (greatdane.webnexus.com [165.227.96.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 00:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kovar.webnexus.com (mg130-147.ricochet.net [204.179.130.147]) by greatdane.webnexus.com (8.8.7/8.8.5/WN-1.2) with SMTP id VAA25035 for ; Sun, 3 May 1998 21:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199805040423.VAA25035@greatdane.webnexus.com> X-Sender: kovar@mail.netnoc.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 21:18:11 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "David C. Kovar" Subject: W-EMED Wilderness Medical Kit In-Reply-To: <01bd745e$ecf578e0$9e3e9380@pmp4em34.mckee.upmc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 6b951cc1957dad12f592523ba5a03f46 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 I am in the middle of my yearly task of refining my medical kits. This was brought about by the fact that I am now doing emergency medicine at concerts and need yet another kit. I also just took a Wilderness First Responder course, which provided a lot of insight and information with respect to medical kits. Medical kits are something of a religious issue, or at least a very personal one, but I'd like to find sources of information about them. I found WEMSI's web page, but the information there is either two years or four years out of date, depending on which date on the page you believe. If anyone has something of similar quality that is more up to date, I would greatly appreciate it. I am also looking for a source of a good package to carry the kit in. (Another religious issue.) Ideally, I'd like to find something that nested, starting with a kit that fits into one hand and works it's way up to a hip pack. The most appropriate I've found so far is from Life Assist, but they do not nest. The Adventure Medical (Mountain Medic Kit) bag might be ok, but I cannot find one to put my hands on at the moment. I'm wary of keeping one kit in my car, one in my SAR pack, and one for the concert medical stuff because then I have three kits I need to keep up to date. Thanks, in advance! -David Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.1.2.1) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:40:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.2.2) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from emed.upmc.edu (pphled03.dwing.upmc.edu [128.147.175.164]) by post-ofc05.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.10) ID for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from EMERG_MED/SpoolDir by emed.upmc.edu (Mercury 1.21); 30 Apr 98 12:55:47 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by EMERG_MED (Mercury 1.30); 30 Apr 98 12:55:43 -0500 Received: from pmp4em34 by emed.upmc.edu (Mercury 1.30); 30 Apr 98 12:55:40 -0500 From: "Jack T. Grandey" To: "WEM" Subject: W-EMED Fw: personel survival equipment Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:39:28 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd745e$ecf578e0$9e3e9380@pmp4em34.mckee.upmc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu id NAA00987 Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 7b3179f512177b0955f05b09f882e4d8 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 I thought that this site might be of interest to the list. It came as a result of a discussion on an aeromedical list. JTG Jack T. Grandey, NREMT-P Director, Division of Applied Informatics Operations Director Department of Emergency Medicine Wilderness EMS Institute UPMC Health System http://www.wemsi.org/ http://www.upmc.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: LL GT To: flightmed@rotor.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 20:40 Subject: Re: personel survival equipment >Doug >If you would like information on survival equipment, a good site is "Equipped >To Survive". The web address is www.equipped.com/survlkit.htm > > >R. Sembrat NREMT-P >Flight Medic Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.1.2.1) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.11) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:00:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ua1.cnnet.com (cnnet.com [207.229.6.10]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [207.229.6.118] by ua1.cnnet.com (NTMail 3.03.0017/1.aikr) with ESMTP id wa323930 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:57:55 -0600 Message-ID: <35489FC0.353@cnnet.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:58:56 -0600 From: s+j nolan X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Subject: Re: W-EMED Need online source for drug information - PDR? References: <199804291706.NAA13960@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <199804300606.XAA09896@greatdane.webnexus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 7b5ac0195e28d2cc878740efc13580dd X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Hi, I don't know where you live, but in leu (sp?) of buying one a Nursing Drug Manual (if you don't really want one), you could check at a pharmacy, hospital, dr's clinic, or ask any nurse you know for one to borrow. Also, Nursing + Medical school, hospital, and public libraries should have a copy you could take out. Hope that helps, Julie Nolan BA, RN David C. Kovar wrote: > > I'm trying to update my medical kit with documentation on the various drugs > I have, their interactions, warnings, etc. Simply clipping the information > from the box, or including the product information sheet, isn't desireable. > I'd like to sum up the information ahead of time and print it all on one > sheet so it contains the information I need in a easy to use manner. > > If anyone can suggest a good web site for looking up drug information that > is available to the layman, I would greatly appreciate it. I've found > several, but they require that you be a physician, be from Duke (as an > example), etc. > > Thanks very much. > > -David > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.1.2.1) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.11) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:14:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.ptd.net (srv1.ptd.net [204.186.0.131]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804301212.IAA21049@list.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Received: (qmail 2920 invoked from network); 30 Apr 1998 12:12:03 -0000 Received: from cs1-07.ben.ptd.net (HELO gjeliiff.ptdprolog.net) (204.186.60.7) by postoffice.ptd.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 1998 12:12:03 -0000 From: "Greg Jelliff" To: Subject: Re: W-EMED Need online source for drug information - PDR? Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:02:47 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: f5f9be9df0004809f75196185ce970b1 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 I would recommend a Nursing Drug Handbook, check your local book store. They contain a great deal of useful information in a compact form, although I would still compare this information with a PDR and the package insert. Greg Jelliff Gregory R. Jelliff RN,CCRN,PHRN Guthrie Rural Health & Safety Program Robert Packer Hospital Emergecy Dept. Guthrie Square Sayre, PA 18840 (717)-882-4225 (717)-882-4231 FAX ---------- > From: David C. Kovar > To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu > Subject: W-EMED Need online source for drug information - PDR? > Date: Thursday, April 30, 1998 2:00 AM > > I'm trying to update my medical kit with documentation on the various drugs > I have, their interactions, warnings, etc. Simply clipping the information > from the box, or including the product information sheet, isn't desireable. > I'd like to sum up the information ahead of time and print it all on one > sheet so it contains the information I need in a easy to use manner. > > If anyone can suggest a good web site for looking up drug information that > is available to the layman, I would greatly appreciate it. I've found > several, but they require that you be a physician, be from Duke (as an > example), etc. > > Thanks very much. > > -David > > Do not reproduce without author's express permission. > To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" > as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu > Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.1.2.1) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:09:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.11) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:09:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from greatdane.webnexus.com (greatdane.webnexus.com [165.227.96.3]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 02:06:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kovar.webnexus.com (kovar.dialup.webnexus.com [209.140.226.2]) by greatdane.webnexus.com (8.8.7/8.8.5/WN-1.2) with SMTP id XAA09896 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804300606.XAA09896@greatdane.webnexus.com> X-Sender: kovar@mail.netnoc.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:00:13 -0700 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "David C. Kovar" Subject: W-EMED Need online source for drug information - PDR? In-Reply-To: <199804300217.WAA17358@titan.tcn.net> References: <199804291706.NAA13960@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: ed41026aa4e14823ed61f635ae807672 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 I'm trying to update my medical kit with documentation on the various drugs I have, their interactions, warnings, etc. Simply clipping the information from the box, or including the product information sheet, isn't desireable. I'd like to sum up the information ahead of time and print it all on one sheet so it contains the information I need in a easy to use manner. If anyone can suggest a good web site for looking up drug information that is available to the layman, I would greatly appreciate it. I've found several, but they require that you be a physician, be from Duke (as an example), etc. Thanks very much. -David Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.24]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.1.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:11:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc02.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.11) ID ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:10:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:10:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID for ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:08:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-f3-13.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.21.123]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.10) ID ; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804291706.NAA13960@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com, mra@altadena.net Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:06:43 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED HeatPac Charcoal Vest Rewarming Device -- Technical Analysis CC: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, NCRC@ontosystems.com (NCRC Discussion List) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: aa443bc8fa3d69f7847c144c46615973 I've just completed writing up a technical analysis of the HeatPac Charcoal Vest Rewarming Device -- complete with pictures and diagrams. It's posted on my EMS/Wilderness EMS page, accessible from the URL below. If interested in publishing a version in a newsletter or magazine, please contact me. Thanks, and hope you find it interesting. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.1.2.1) ID ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.11) ID ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.11]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 136.142.57.10.pitt.edu (ehdup-d3-5.rmt.net.pitt.edu [136.142.20.235]) by post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.10) ID ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:49:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804280149.VAA29634@post-ofc04.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP" To: sar-l@listserv.islandnet.com, mra@altadena.net Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:46:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: W-EMED "The Art of Search" CC: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu, NCRC@ontosystems.com (NCRC Discussion List) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: ada3255debfad115d55db845b6066bd3 I just (4/27/98) took the first half of a very good "Practical Search Operations" class - a follow-on to the MSO or MSF class - by Dave Carter and Mark Eggeman of Search and Rescue Training Associates of Virginia (also members of the ASRC's Tidewater SAR Group). This is a great course, sort of "everything about search you wanted to know, but never learned from MSO." The course is specific to Virginia but we're trying to adapt it to Pennsylvania. It's sort of a dogmatic course, but consciously so - the point is not that this is not the only good way to do a search, but it is a very good way to run it, and there are advantages to having a single "book way" to run the nitty-gritty details of the search. As I was taking notes, I couldn't help noting the parallel with Sun Tzu's Art of War - dogmatic rules encapsulating expert experience. Now Sun Tzu also has some generic information on leadership, as well as specific tactical information - some of which seems to apply pretty well if you substitute "search" for "war." I happened to have an copy of the Art of War handy. So I thought I'd take some of the PSO rules, mix them up with a free translation of the relevant part of The Art of War, and what resulted: a pastiche of Sun Tzu and SARTA material. Since, during the time The Art of War was written, it was common to take the teachings of a wise master, add one's own ideas, and attribute to the master, I'm in good company in what I did, I guess . As this is an act of art, not science or technical writing, I will be happy to accept suggestions for improvement (kconover+@pitt.edu), and will post updates on my Web site (www.pitt.edu/~kconover) but reserve the right to scream "no, no, NO!", drum my heels on the floor, and refuse to make changes without any other justification. My apologies to both Sun Tzu and SARTA, and also my apologies for maybe starting a new religion. Hope you find it at least amusing. I won't waste bandwidth mailing it to the lists. But, check my home page, URL below, and click on the icon for the SAR/Outdoor pages to check it out in either HTML or Word format. At least when Dave Carter saw it he had to read the first page to the class, or rather tried to but kept stopping because he was laughing so hard. Take care. --Keith Conover, M.D., FACEP http://www.pitt.edu/~kconover Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.25]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.1.2.1) ID ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:50:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc01.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.11) ID ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:50:38 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:50:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:50:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:47:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from naps.uwindsor.ca (dns.uwindsor.ca [137.207.232.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:47:31 -0500 (EST) Received: id LAA07515; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:45:55 -0500 Received: by gateway id LAA22189 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:46:05 -0500 X-Sender: pirie1@server.uwindsor.ca (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980330203132.00695544@aehn2.einstein.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:43:05 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Steven D. Pirie" Subject: W-EMED Wilderness Nursing Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 844e8e9286acc84645c5e28d6b98e21a X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Hello , >>>If we want to look at nursing >>please reword as "health" This might be the key. Maybe as a multidisciplinary team in the wilderness we are not doing (or, should not be doing) so much wilderness medicine, but rather wilderness health which encompasses wilderness medicine as an integral part. Should the WEMSI then be renamed to the WEHMI (the H for Health?) >>>>The nursing model (assessment, planning, implementation, and evaluation... >>Er, this is not limited to nursing. Its method, really scientific method, >>for generic problem solving.... Given. >>Er, you mean like the PUBLIC Health and PREVENTIVE health of the SAR team >members?! Excellent! This is the whole idea... although not unique to nursing, I thing that nurse (as part of their unique schooling and such) have valuable information which should be included in the Wilderness Health concept. >>>>Ethics in wilderness medicine >>If you wish. What do you mean here? Is there that much "unethical" conduct >>in Wilderness Medicine to define content? No, not that I can think of off the top of my head, but Wilderness Medicine / Health embraces some of the key concepts of impartiality, universality interpersonal justifiability, autonomy, beneficence, nonmaleficence confidentiality, personal integrity and fidelity to name a few. >>>>SAR team and patient communications (not the radio type :-) ) >>Uh, interpersonal communications 101? Forthrightness? Yeah, interpersonal communications... like the different levels of communications between people, the elements of the communication process, the different modes of communication, some of the common factors influencing communication, and the whole distinct topic of therapeutic communication and therapeutic relationships. This can be tied into the nursing or scientific method process. >>>>Leadership and management >>True. Both are somewhat different. How does this differ from the >>essentials of Field Team Leader core? Both are distinctly different! Since I have never taken the Field Team Leader core course do know the content covered. If there is a course offered like that, it would be redundant to include it else where. >>>>Basic patient monitoring (vitals etc) >>Monitoring, meaning again and again and again? I called it basic patient monitoring for lack of a better term... It could encompass things like the basics, temp, pulse, respirations, and blood pressure, and recording signs. It is the bread and butter stuff. >>How about "seasoned observation" or "patient clue awareness"? This is the hallmark of someone with experience and cannot be taught... I believe that it is an acquired skill. >>>>Advanced physical and health assessment >>How advanced? why? what parameters? For who? The more advanced the better, as long as it is usable physical assessment. Why... because physical assessment (next to history) is your most important diagnostic tool in the field. This is especially true if your a week or two out, and or in some crap hole country that lacks anything better the local witch doctor. For who? everyone? nurses? paramedics? extended expedition medics? >>I'd add medical/health screening procedures Excellent idea! This is key in the prevention process. >>>>Wound care and management >>more than what is there now? Well, once again if your going to be 2 weeks out and or on a little island somewhere, or in some foreign country it may be a good idea to talk about dressing changes, sterile packing, abscess drainage, debridement, etc.. >>ERGGG. what defines a "nursing" procedure, different from a "medical" or a >>"Health promotion" procedure? Help me understand Well when you start too look at things from a critical distance, you notice that there really is not a whole lot (if any) of a difference. Both disciplines come from the same collection of other disciplines. They are not mutually exclusive, but rather parallel one another. >>>We expect them to be able to give injectable meds, yet we do not teach >>>the >>>skill. >>SHOULD WE? I think so. I feel that it is important for any person that is implementing a procedure to know the rational, risks, benefits, contraindications, indications, anatomy, basic physiology, potential complications, and have the psychomotor capability to actually do the procedure. You cannot teach psychomotor skills but rather they need to be acquired through practice. >>IF we believe (and ideally can prove) the NEED for the program, then we >>oughta to DEFINE the NEEDED components, and this should be from EXPEREINCE >>and REASONABLE anticipation, not conjecture. THEN a plan can be developed. Maybe as opposed to adding all of these ideas to the current curriculum. you / we should consider an extended expedition wilderness medic's course? Or a second level of EMT-W? who knows? I think that your ideas are great expansion on my own and Bernie's. I welcome everyone's input... keep it coming! Cheers, Steven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OCdt Steven D. Pirie, BScN(c) Nursing Officer (Land) University of Windsor Canadian Forces Medical Service ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End -- Received: from post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (root@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu [136.142.185.39]) by pop.srv.cis.pitt.edu with ESMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispop-7.1.2.1) ID ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:51:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cispo-7.2.1.11) ID ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:50:35 -0500 (EST) Received: via switchmail; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:50:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from list.srv.cis.pitt.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:50:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:46:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from naps.uwindsor.ca (dns.uwindsor.ca [137.207.232.1]) by list.srv.cis.pitt.edu with SMTP (8.8.8/8.8.8/cisls-7.1.2.1) ID for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:46:44 -0500 (EST) Received: id LAA07504; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:45:36 -0500 Received: by gateway id LAA22084 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:45:46 -0500 X-Sender: pirie1@server.uwindsor.ca (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199803301225.HAA16125@titan.tcn.net> References: <199803262313.SAA27724@titan.tcn.net> <351A6FD7.2932@cnnet.com> <199803241535.KAA01231@titan.tcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:43:05 -0500 To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu From: "Steven D. Pirie" Subject: W-EMED Wilderness Nursing Sender: owner-wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu X-UIDL: 61ae5476d611b643f0e675a66af67277 X-PMFLAGS: 34078848 0 Hello everyone, I am posting the publicly because I value others input on the idea, etc. >>If we are going to look at procedures then I think we should look at some >>of the skills preformed under standards that flight nurses do. >My immediate reaction to this was that it was absolutely perfect, but the >more I thought about it, the more I came to think that the flight nurse >situation is really short-term >However, right now I can't think of a more suitable comparison, unless it's >outpost nursing. I did some thinking and re-envisioned the model. Wilderness Nursing draws on: 1. Emergency Nursing 2. Flight Nursing (rescue not transport - Psychomotor skills) 3. Outpost Nursing 4. Missionary Nursing 5. Nurse Practitioner level care and independance 6. Paramedical Studies 7. Prehospital Nursing (As defined in the book by the same title) 8. Emergency Medicine It looks at the holistic bio/psycho/social and general health of the patient < re: writing a textbook of skills> >My understanding is that there has to be at least a 20 % change in material >in order to be legal. I can see this being a real pain in the ass...for >example, how do you take a simple thing such as: > "Place the thermometer under the tongue" >and change 20% of the wording, without making it wordy or changing the >meaning? I am sure that you can find someone that knows the in's and out's of the publishing business... anyone? >I'd be interested in learning what the military nursing service has in the >way of long-term nursing care manuals. Ah... that would be nothing. The whole idea is to adapt your preexisting skills to the field / long term setting. Dr. Wilkerson's Medicine for Mountaineering (4th Ed), has a small section (Chapter 2) of nursing care in his book. It comprises of pages 23-26 and covers comfort and understanding, rest, sedation, analgesia, warmth, lower altitude, coughing, ambulation, diet, bowel care and convalescence. I wonder if Dr. Auerbach's 3rd Ed. of Wilderness Medicine has any references to Wilderness Nursing. I would get the text, but I would have to move to a lower rent district to buy it. The only other reference I have seen to Wilderness nursing was in the Dec. 1997 (Vol 23, #6) issue of the Journal of Emergency Nursing. It was entitled Wilderness and environmental emergencies. It was O.K. but was nothing to write home about. Cheers, Steven ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OCdt Steven D. Pirie, BScN(c) Nursing Officer (Land) University of Windsor Canadian Forces Medical Service ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do not reproduce without author's express permission. To unsubscribe, send the text "unsubscribe wilderness-emergency-medicine" as the body of a message (no subject) To: Majordomo@list.pitt.edu Submissions To: wilderness-emergency-medicine@list.pitt.edu -- End --